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 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
Quote:
Katy, how on earth did you get that impression?

By comments like these:

Quote by Dorcas:
Quote:
David, I'm with you all the way. I think you're doing a fine job of putting into words what you would like to see put into the good works for which saints have been saved, which have been prepared for them from eternity.


Quote by David:

Quote:
To this day I wrestle with this concept.How do I give them Jesus? All I know at this point Is I need to be"real".I also believe I need to walk in Love.
How can Jesus give a dead baby made whole back to his mama except through you and me?
It looks like I am against quoting scripture but I am only wanting the scripture comming from my mouth to be comming from a REAL person.
The "red letters of the bible seem to rebuke my very core.


Hi Katy

To me these quotes mean nothing like you seem to think they mean :-?

Love in Him

Jeannette

 2007/10/11 16:40









 Re:

Quote:

dorcas wrote:

Re: To go back to the original topic

LittleGift quoted an article
Quote:
'...because they were speaking about the same general thing. As was common in those days ...'

This probably explains what I noticed recently, when I tried to find the exact form of works which Paul had used in Romans 11, and couldn't, because he had reversed the preposition from 'to' to 'from'.

Thus the original reads:

Isaiah 59:20
And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

compared with the New Covenant rendering:

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
[27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.]

Hi Linn

The difference is probably because the Septuagint (Greek OT translation) was commonly used in those days, while most of our English translations are direct from the Hebrew. Apparently many NT quotes of the OT are directly from that version not the Hebrew.

Also, we would need to know the original Hebrew, whose grammar is very different from English, to decide which version is nearest the Hebrew meaning.

Although, come to think of it, both versions are true! Jesus did "come to Zion" literally, and spiritually He now comes FROM Zion...

blessings

Jeannette

 2007/10/11 17:03









 Re:

Jeannette, Your original question on this thread is about paraphrasing scripture or Quoting scripture, and is there a difference and what is the importance.

I have given my answers, and am answering questions asked concerning these 2 ways to learn and understand how to handle the word of truth.

We are to study to show ourselves approved rightly dividing the word of truth, as did Jesus in the Wilderness when confronted by Satan.

We too must know how to handle the Word.

Jesus never contradicted himself, as Jesus IS the WORD of God.

It's our understanding of possibly WRONGLY dividing the Word, that it may look as though there are contradictions...but there are not.

Take the belief of Mary as the Queen of Heaven, or the teaching of the Catholic Church of the Assumption of Mary. Now the Catholic Church believes they have scripture to back that up. But do they really? Or have they mis-applied scriptures? And just how seriously do they believe this, and is this teaching DANGEROUS? Or how about their teaching about pergetory, or limbo, and how many have actually believed this...is it dangerous? Yes!!!

Or Mormons who use scripture in 1st Corinthians 15 to Baptize people for the dead....

Those who know the Word, and know what that means know how wrong their teaching is.

We also can rightly divide the Word of Truuth when Mormons talk about Jesus, and many Christians now saying we are the same....but are we really? Isn't their Jesus Satan's brother? yes, so is their Jesus the Jesus of Scripture? How do you know He is or isn't.....isn't it by Knowing Scripture?


God Bless,...and my last words here are ...."STAY IN THE WORD", in season and out!!! Rebuke, reproof, if necessary.

Jesus said, My Words are Spirit and they are Life, so one must be Born of the Spirit to even understand and hear what God is talking about to begin with.

The Human mind can think they know what it says, and that is why there is so many divisions and arguments. But we are to speak the SAME thing, and mind the Same things.


Love in Christ
Katy-Did

:-)

 2007/10/11 17:05









 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
Jeannette, Your original question on this thread is about paraphrasing scripture or Quoting scripture, and is there a difference and what is the importance.

I have given my answers, and am answering questions asked concerning these 2 ways to learn and understand how to handle the word of truth.

We are to study to show ourselves approved rightly dividing the word of truth, as did Jesus in the Wilderness when confronted by Satan.

We too must know how to handle the Word.

Jesus never contradicted himself, as Jesus IS the WORD of God.

It's our understanding of possibly WRONGLY dividing the Word, that it may look as though there are contradictions...but there are not.

Take the belief of Mary as the Queen of Heaven, or the teaching of the Catholic Church of the Assumption of Mary. Now the Catholic Church believes they have scripture to back that up. But do they really? Or have they mis-applied scriptures? And just how seriously do they believe this, and is this teaching DANGEROUS? Or how about their teaching about pergetory, or limbo, and how many have actually believed this...is it dangerous? Yes!!!

Or Mormons who use scripture in 1st Corinthians 15 to Baptize people for the dead....

Those who know the Word, and know what that means know how wrong their teaching is.

We also can rightly divide the Word of Truuth when Mormons talk about Jesus, and many Christians now saying we are the same....but are we really? Isn't their Jesus Satan's brother? yes, so is their Jesus the Jesus of Scripture? How do you know He is or isn't.....isn't it by Knowing Scripture?


God Bless,...and my last words here are ...."STAY IN THE WORD", in season and out!!! Rebuke, reproof, if necessary.

Jesus said, My Words are Spirit and they are Life, so one must be Born of the Spirit to even understand and hear what God is talking about to begin with.

The Human mind can think they know what it says, and that is why there is so many divisions and arguments. But we are to speak the SAME thing, and mind the Same things.


Love in Christ
Katy-Did

:-)

Dear Katy, you talk as if you are correcting everyone, as if you are the only one who knows how to rightly handle the Word. Or as if some are mishandling it. Which we probably are not.

Does anyone disagree with anything you say here? I doubt it! So why do you say it as if maybe we do???

I know it's because of your zeal for Truth but you so often seem to be attacking the wrong targets, beating the air. Or hitting people over the head with the Word, when they have probably said nothing to deserve it!

**********************************************************

Re paraphrasing, I explained (probably in a pm) what I meant by "paraphrase", and you agreed that you had misunderstood.

You yourself, early in this thread, paraphrased something from John 6, yet now you are again saying it's wrong!

In fact your paraphrase wasn't quite correct in giving the sense of the passage, but I didn't comment because it was true to Scripture, even though that wasn't quite what the words in John were saying.


in Him


Jeannette

 2007/10/11 18:34









 Re:

Jeannette, here is a perfect example of what happens when someone para-phrases God's Word.

The WOF people say that God created the World by faith....that it took *faith* for God to do this, and that power is in Faith (Not in God)

This is why WOF teachers believe that your FAITH is yor power for healing or any name it claim it you want. If you didn't get it or didn't get healed, it was because you didn't have enough FAITH.

But if you carefully read these scriptures you will see that Scripture teaches no such thing.

By faith WE BELIEVE God Created the World. Because so many go for those who paraphrase rather then look it up and QUOTE EXACTLY as God placed those words, many will in these last days be deceived by the para-phrasers.

There can be no more perfect example than this, as these teachers have wrecked much havoc through out the world, as was the Testimony of one such on this Site telling a story about when David Wilkerson went into Russia, and how the people thought God had abandoned them,(The WOF teachers were there first) because they just didn't get what they were told they would get......Heaven on earth!

So, this is why I believe we need to KNOW God's Word, to repell false doctrine, and save numerous suffering souls as was David Wilkerson's Sermon to them as he brought them the TRUTH out of the Scriptures. Our Faith is in Jesus Christ, and His finished work on the Cross....not faith in faith.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


Hebrews 11
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3Through faith *****we understand****** that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.


:-)

 2007/10/11 18:36









 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
Jeannette, here is a perfect example of what happens when someone para-phrases God's Word...

By this reasoning you are also condemning [u]yourself[/u] for paraphrasing, as you did earlier in this thread.

Love in Him

Jeannette

 2007/10/11 19:26









 Re:

Katy said:

Quote:
so many go for those who paraphrase rather then look it up and QUOTE [u]EXACTLY as God placed those words[/u]...

How can we quote like that? The original God-given words were in Hebrew or Greek, (or Aramaic in a few parts of the Old Testament). No translation is 100% accurate, we just have to be as accurate as possible to express the original meaning of the original words.

No-one on this thread is a Catholic or a Mormon or WOF or into any other gross error that I know of. Neither is anyone suggesting that we "paraphrase" everything, or that it isn't important to rightly interpret the Word.

So why are you keeping on about errors that don't apply?

You still haven't answered that question, which has been asked several times in different ways.

It's nearly 1am here

so Good Night, sleep well


Jeannette

 2007/10/11 19:51









 Re: Quoting Scripture?

Dear Katy,

I refer to your posts on p8, but not in order.

Quote:
So Psalms 1 and Dorcas, I don't need to see a timeline that you seem to feel will alleviate my frustration about your not understanding the Gospel.

My point in mentioning a timeline is that the disciples lived through an extremely slow revelation of God's word through Jesus' life with them.

But it is possible, nowadays, to pick bits and pieces from that methodical presentation on which God slowly built the disciples' understanding in real multi-dimensional life, as if the bits which [u]we[/u] don't mention are of no relevance. You are always saying how every written word is relevant. Not one of us disputes this. But, I maintain that there is a need to ponder the [i]fact[/i] of Jesus doing certain things before certain others, [i]saying[/i] certain things before certain others, and the final [u]forward focus[/u] with which He left the disciples when He ascended. Or, the word of God is not used to its best advantage. It is not ammunition for a virtual spray-gun.


To be clearer then, when I refer to 'the gospel', I am not talking about an eclectic selection of Bible verses only, I am talking about the news that what Jesus did and what is available through faith (and baptism in the Holy Spirit) [i][b]today[/i][/b], is that we - believers - have a very simple remit from Him, (spelled out by the apostles' writings now called the New Testament), which is to do our Father's will.

Embodied in that invitation, is [u]all[/u] that we need to grasp to understand what salvation requires of [i]us[/i], if we are to obtain it [u]in the end[/u].


Laid out in the New Testament through the gospels, is an account of the way Jesus spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and its leaders and rulers, as well as a demonstration of the word of God in power. He ministered to all who would ask from Him, regardless of their social status or need, at the same time as preparing His heart and mind to die for all of mankind - hypocrites, murderers, torturers, liars and all.

I am greatly challenged by this brand of love.

This is what David began to talk about, about which I agree with him. The idea you have, that living out the life of God in my flesh, (Rom 8:11), is somehow a corollary to

Quote:
know you don't think scripture is that important, however I do.

bewilders me.

However, perhaps I found some understanding in your post which said (after quoting the temptations of Christ in Matthew 4):

Quote:
The WORD of God is Living and powerful and sharper than a TWO EDGE SWORD:

We take that SWORD into Battle. Ephesians 6

Our paraphrasing has no power, but God’s WORD does. As you see when Jesus was tempted by Satan , Jesus didn’t paraphrase.

HE QUOTED SCTIPTURE!

in that you imply (probably without meaning to) that you think of Bible verses as something with which to joust, or by which to refute another's thoughts, even if we are all on the same side, and you are actually in the heart of a strong Christian community here, (who also holds the word of God dear, other members of which, also, are called to preach it).


While I agree with you that it's vital to know exactly what scripture 1) says and 2) means, I cannot agree that it can only be presented to other people in that form. To some, it is the equivalent of giving them a frozen dinner which has not been through the microwave yet. It's unpalatable and meaningless. They cannot eat it like that and therefore, they go away hungry.

A person who understands how the frozen meal has been constructed and balanced, is not afraid to present it in a ready-to-eat format; (because) the ingredients are not changed, by making them palatable.

Of course the word of God is always edible, but you don't give french fries to newborn, for instance, because that might kill them, rather than feed them. Wisdom, patience, and time on an appropriate diet will make all the difference to a person growing into one who can tackle the entire freezer with confidence, (understanding the difference between a child's meal and a banquet for adults).

 2007/10/16 8:26









 Re:

Dorcas, this is what I am saying:

Dorcas,

These( John 14:26) were some of the last words Jesus said to His Disciples:

Many things they didn’t spiritually understand until the Holy Spirit enlightened them…..


John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Now the Word of God has many facets.

1. One for warefare:
Ephesians 6:
10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

2. One for our Personal Growth in His precious Promises to be partakers of His Divine Nature:
2 Peter 1
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


One to also let us know that these things taught to those In Christ can only be heard by those IN CHRIST……the Spiritual Man, not the Natural Man. This also goes back to the original words of Jesus in John 14:26…..

1 Corinthians 2
1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.



Now there are different stages of Growth in the Christian Life,
They are:
1. Babies – 1 Peter 2:2
1st Peter 2:2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

2. Children
12:I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
13: I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
18:Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

3. Young men
13:I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one.
14: I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

4. Fathers:
14I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.
1 John 2:12-19 All Together:
Sta12I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

13I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

So, the Holy Spirit brings to remembrance all things Jesus has Said.
1. We are forgiven of our Sin –
This CHILDREN know.
2. Those in Christ Have Eternal Life – CHILDREN KNOW
3.
4. We are warned against false teachers and anti-christs - CHILDREN are warned.
Moving on to Maturity IN CHRIST
5. We do battle with Satan and are told in Ephesians how to Handle ourselves. YOUNG MEN
13:I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one.
14: I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

WOW!!!! HE THAT OVERCOMES!!!!
Fathers , as Paul said….though you have 10,000 teachers but not many Fathers, be ye followers of Me the way I am of Christ……

How do we grow into Maturity being conformed to His Image?
6. We are partakers of His Divine Nature through His precious Promises.

It’s the Holy Spirit who quickens the Word of God within us, strengthening us with MIGHT in the Inner Man ( Ephesians 3)….

And we reach the end of Ephesians 3…..that It’s GOD who does abundantly above all that WE could possibly ask or think according to HIS POWER that works within.



Now Dorcas, many believe in their eternal Security, and have found those promises in God's Word. Yet many believe they have to work until the end and endure till the end and that determines their salvation.

So, to say we all believe the same is not true. If someone who DID NOT believe in their eternal security tells me I have to do this or that, then I will show him where this or that is law...not Grace. And really, if one wanted to get even deeper in these discusssions, that is the pivotal point where many cannot agree on many issues that stem from these two points.

With that said, I believe this is the root of many and most argument, that cannot be resolved. Law vs Grace.

Love In Christ Jesus
Katy-Did


 2007/10/17 17:04









 Re:

Katy said:

Quote:
many believe in their eternal Security, and have found those promises in God's Word. Yet many believe they have to work until the end and endure till the end and that determines their salvation.

So, to say we all believe the same is not true. If someone who DID NOT believe in their eternal security tells me I have to do this or that, then I will show him where this or that is law...not Grace. And really, if one wanted to get even deeper in these discusssions, that is the pivotal point where many cannot agree on many issues that stem from these two points.

With that said, I believe this is the root of many and most argument, that cannot be resolved. Law vs Grace.

Hi again Katy

I know you spoke to Dorcas specifically, but can I ask whether you believe in eternal security or not? I think you said elsewhere that you don't agree with Calvinism; but here you seem to be saying more or less the opposite...

And what is the purpose of the Scriptures you quoted? Precious, and so very true and wonderful, but how are they connected with the present discussion? :-?

I'm not being deliberately difficult or opposing you but trying to understand what you mean...

Love in Him

Jeannette

 2007/10/17 17:41





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