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Search_Me
Member



Joined: 2007/7/24
Posts: 42


 Re:

Quote:

Intens4Him wrote:
.
I'm sorry!@!!! I'm kind of paranoid because some people like to set up questions only to lambast us with their real agenda!! Forgive me my friend.



that's ok.when i hang out with dan and then when he is with the pastor who preaches with him they talk about doctrine and bible teachings and they know so much and i'm just sitting there staring lol. sometimes i feel small but since dan has been at his new church for almost a year and a half he just smiles and says 'can we pray?' and says not to worry about the big issues but just to trust Jesus and let Him speak to me and then i don't feel so small! lol i just don't have a good memory and can't memorize Bible verses as good as some people but i know Jesus loves me and only wants my heart to follow hard after Him.

on a lighter side it just popped into my head but you know I was anointed with Windex when i was a young Christian because the minister didn't have oil present.


_________________
Ryan

 2007/9/21 20:17Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:
'm sorry!@!!! I'm kind of paranoid because some people like to set up questions only to lambast us with their real agenda!! Forgive me my friend.



Talking about me again! :-x Guess the apology was meaningless? :-o

My advice is to search the scriptures first, don't read any books about this matter, unless it is over 100yrs old. Y

You will get many beliefs and interpretations on SI. It shouldn't even matter if you receive the gift of tongues or not. I would be concerned about growing in my relationship with the Lord and to serve Him. Not to say you are not, but that should be are first concern for all of us who believe, and if the Lord so chooses to do something else, he will. If our motives are only to have this gift or any gift because it seems really cool or others make you feel inferior if you don't have this "prayer language", then you or anyone else will not receive it.



 2007/9/21 20:25Profile
Search_Me
Member



Joined: 2007/7/24
Posts: 42


 Re:

Quote:

reformer wrote:

You will get many beliefs and interpretations on SI. It shouldn't even matter if you receive the gift of tongues or not. I would be concerned about growing in my relationship with the Lord and to serve Him. Not to say you are not, but that should be are first concern for all of us who believe, and if the Lord so chooses to do something else, he will. If our motives are only to have this gift or any gift because it seems really cool or others make you feel inferior if you don't have this "prayer language", then you or anyone else will not receive it.



thank you for being so concerned because noadays most aren't and only look for power and usually encourage people to seek power but you have warned me of not seeking anyone but the Lord. thank you, reformer.


_________________
Ryan

 2007/9/21 20:32Profile









 Re:

.
Windex works... the Lord can use WHATEVER he wants to use!! I think that is awesome, that sounds like something I would grab!

Quote:
just smiles and says 'can we pray?' and says not to worry about the big issues but just to trust Jesus and let Him speak to me and then i don't feel so small! lol i just don't have a good memory and can't memorize Bible verses as good as some people but i know Jesus loves me and only wants my heart to follow hard after Him.



You're blessed already! Dan sounds like a great friend of God to have!!

One day you may be defending the gospel only to realize suddenly that you've memorized the Word and that you have a good memory... all because you trusted Him!! If we are faithful in the little things, he will make us rulers over the big things!! hang in there with Jesus, I know you will!

Delight yourself also in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart.
Psalms 37.4

God bless you Ryan!!

 2007/9/21 21:02
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1830
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

On the street there are some people from a church in London who do not think I am saved if I do not preach speaking in tounges.
I tell them people like David Brainard and John Wesley didnt speak in tounges but they reply that is just man, we believe the bible.
I love the bible, I sometimes find it hard as they says what would you say to people on the street and I am dumbfounded as I cannot say anything. I do not know what to say.
It is a hard question to ask, the stupid thing is that I do speak in tounges (not much or barely at all) but there were many great people through history who didnt.


_________________
Dominic Shiells

 2007/9/21 21:07Profile









 Re:

Quote:
One of the most dangerous and damaging teachings in the Church Today as well as when Paul wrote Corinthians 14, is that you must speak in tongues to prove you are saved or have received the Holy Spirit. This is a lie.

The only lie in your statement Katy is "That you must speak in tongues to prove you are saved", you are right, that is a lie. In saying that, the proof that one has received the holy Spirit AT THE TIME YOU RECEIVE IT, is the speaking in tongues. But I do agree with PART of your statement that there are people that say that if you don't speak in tongues your not saved, that is a lie.

 2007/9/21 22:11









 Re:

Quote:
It is a hard question to ask, the stupid thing is that I do speak in tongues (not much or barely at all) but there were many great people through history who didn't.

Not much or barely at all, that was me in my initial receiving of the holy Spirit. By faith speak out that language in your prayer closet, don't try to understand it. Pray only in this language and in time it will develop, you'll see.

And it's good that you don't preach tongues, we preach Christ and Him crucified. And afterwards believers should receive the holy Spirit and yes when they receive it, they should expect a manifestation of the speaking in tongues or prophesying.

There are so many weird and crazy things happening amongst Pentecostal/ Charismatic churches today that makes people leery of the true experience of Pentecost, even I am ashamed and embarrassed of it all. If we can just wade thru this mess, were sure to find the real McCoy.

 2007/9/21 22:35
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

compliments, Wow so many tongue talkers! Praise God!
When I got saved I was ,in my mind, the only one in my church that hadnt recd the baptism of the Holy Ghost.This was unbearable for me. I just couldnt seem to receive.I prayed and prayed.
One day as i was going to church the Lord spoke to me. "Today you will receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit"
Well I told my friends about it and everyone but me was excited.
I had developed a complex about it.
well I knew God had said.......
So I reluctantly told my pastor.He said he would pray for me after church.Well when he prayed he kept coaching me to start saying baby words like"da da" . I just locked up . And the whole thing was a flop.
When I came out of church a small crowd had formed to see me all transformed. I guess I dissappointed them and most of them left except for 2 awesome women.I told them about the flopped attempt with the pastor.[by now i was really dissappointed]. They said you will receive it. Now come back inside! when those women laid their hands on me the power of God hit me so hard all i saw was bright lights.
One of them said "open your mouth" and when I did another language came out! This was in 1977
and I have had this blessd gift all these years
we definattely need this. I have edified myself countless times and sometimes when i dont know how to pray, I pray in tongues.
......David

 2007/9/21 23:25Profile
Search_Me
Member



Joined: 2007/7/24
Posts: 42


 Re:

Quote:

psalm1 wrote:

I told them about the flopped attempt with the pastor.[by now i was really dissappointed]. They said you will receive it. Now come back inside! when those women laid their hands on me the power of God hit me so hard all i saw was bright lights.
One of them said "open your mouth" and when I did another language came out! This was in 1977
and I have had this blessd gift all these years
we definattely need this. I have edified myself countless times and sometimes when i dont know how to pray, I pray in tongues.
......David



wow!


_________________
Ryan

 2007/9/22 0:57Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re: The Bible and Tongues

Brethren, have you read this article by Zac Poonen on tongues? He really puts them in a proper, Biblical perspective and quashes all the hype that's been going on for decades surrounding them. As a tongue-talking Christian, I can truly say that this is the best article on tongues I've ever seen. I've excerpted 21 truths about tongues from that article. I pray you're edified!

"It is always best to stick exactly to what Scripture says on all doctrinal matters. Let us look then, with an unprejudiced mind, at every single verse in the Bible on the subject of "speaking in tongues":

Truth No. 1
Mark 16:17: [Jesus said,] "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues... they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Jesus said that some of the signs accompanying the company of "those who have believed" would be speaking in tongues, casting out demons and healing the sick. He did not say that ALL these signs would accompany EVERY believer. But He said that these signs would be found among the company of "those who have believed".

So every believer need not have all these gifts. Neither need every church have all these gifts. But they will be found in the whole church worldwide. The Holy Spirit sovereignly decides whom to give the gifts to.

Truth No. 2
Acts 2:4,7,11: "They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance....... And the Jews from every nation marvelled saying....`We hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.'"

The first time that believers were filled with the Holy Spirit, they ALL spoke in tongues. The "tongues" were languages that others understood immediately. So there was no need for the gift of interpretation.

Notice also in verse 4 that it was the persons themselves who began to speak in tongues and not the Holy Spirit. The Spirit did not move their tongues. The Spirit only gave them utterance. They spoke themselves.

In no gift, does the Holy Spirit take away freedom of choice from us. In fact, the fruit of the Spirit is "self-control" (Gal.5:23). Only demon-possessed people lose control of themselves. One who is filled with the Spirit will have more control over himself than anyone else. "The spirit of the prophets is subject to the control of the prophets"
(1 Cor.14:32).

Truth No. 3
Acts 10:46: "They were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God."

Here, in the house of Cornelius, all who were in his house were baptized in the Holy Spirit, at the same moment as they were converted to Christ. They spoke in "tongues" exalting God (praising Him) - not speaking to people, as was the case on the day of Pentecost.

Truth No. 4
Acts 19:6: "When Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying"

The Holy Spirit came upon the believers in Ephesus, when Paul laid hands on them. The "tongues" here seems to have been prophesying.

Note the following facts from the above instances in "Acts":

(a) In Acts 2 they received the Spirit, after water baptism. In Acts 10, they received the Spirit BEFORE water baptism.
(b) In Acts 2 and 10, they received the Spirit without anyone laying hands on them. In Acts 19, they received the Spirit after Paul laid hands on them.
(This proves that there is no standard pattern for receiving the Spirit. It could be either before or after water-baptism, and also with or without the laying on of hands).
(c) In Acts 8:14-18, when the disciples in Samaria received the Holy Spirit, there is no mention that they spoke in tongues. But Simon the magician did see some evidence (we are not told what it was) which made him want the same ability that Peter had.


Truth No. 5
1 Cor. 12:7,8,10: "But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit... to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues."

The gift of tongues is for "the common good" - the good of the church. This was written 25 years after the day of Pentecost. And the gift of tongues was still being given then by the Spirit "for the common good".

Truth No. 6
1 Cor.12:11: "But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills".

This is perhaps the clearest Scripture that teaches that the Holy Spirit sovereignly decides to whom to give each gift (including the gift of tongues). We cannot dictate to Him whom He should give any gift to.

Truth No. 7
1 Cor. 12:28: "God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then... various kinds of tongues."

It is God Who appointed the gift of tongues in the church - for some purpose. So we should never oppose this gift, lest we be found opposing God. Remember that He has more wisdom than we have.

Truth No. 8
1 Cor. 12:30: "All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?"

All believers do not speak in tongues, just like all believers do not have the gifts of healing. So obviously, God does not feel that "tongues" is an essential gift for all believers - either for being holy or for being effective in His service. If it were, He would have given this gift to everyone.


Truth No. 9
1 Cor. 13:1: "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal."

Speaking in tongues without love is useless. All pride in those who speak in tongues, and all "looking down" on others who don't speak in tongues is because of a lack of love. Such unloving believers who speak in tongues are as repulsive to God as a noisy gong is to us.

Truth No. 10
1 Cor. 13:8: "Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away."

When perfection comes at Christ's return, there will be no more need for speaking in tongues.
In heaven, there will be no need for "tongues" - just like there will be no more need for Bible-knowledge or prophecy.


So "tongues" is a temporary gift needed only under the imperfect conditions prevalent on earth.
This explains why Jesus never needed the gift of tongues. It was because His mind was perfectly pure and because He lived in perfect communion with His Father at all times,


Truth No. 11
1 Cor. 14:2: "One who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries."

The gift of tongues mentioned here is obviously different from the one manifested on the day of Pentecost - for this gift is not to "speak to men but to God" and no-one can understand what the speaker is saying.

Truth No. 12
1 Cor. 14:4: "One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself
The gift of tongues enables a believer to build himself up spiritually.

Truth No. 13
1 Cor. 14:5: "I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying. But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what shall I profit you, unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?"

Paul wished that ALL spoke in tongues. This is yet another verse that clearly indicates that all believers do NOT speak in tongues.

Paul's wish here is similar to his wish that ALL should be single like he himself was (as he states earlier in the same letter - 1 Cor.7:7). Paul saw some benefits in being single. He also saw some benefits in speaking in tongues. But Paul recognised that just as God was sovereign in giving the "gift of being single" only to some believers, He was equally sovereign in giving the "gift of tongues" also only to some believers.

Therefore it is as foolish to expect all believers to speak in tongues as it is to expect all believers to be single!!

In the church-meeting, it is far better to prophesy (that is, to speak God's Word "to encourage, edify and console" others - 1 Cor. 14:3). If however a 'tongue' is interpreted, then it is equal to prophecy.

Truth No. 14
1 Cor. 14:9,13: "Unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear (understandable), how will it be known what is spoken?...Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret."
"Tongues" must be interpreted when used in a church meeting.


Truth No. 15
1 Cor. 14:14: "If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. What is the outcome then? I shall pray with the spirit and I shall pray with the mind. I shall sing with the spirit and I shall sing with the mind."

When praying in tongues, a person cannot understand what he is praying. But Paul still felt that he should pray and sing "with the spirit" (in tongues), as much as he did with his mind (in a known language).

Truth No. 16
1 Cor. 14:18: "I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all." Paul was thankful to God for this gift. So it must have helped him.

Truth No. 17
1 Cor. 14:19: "However, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind, that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue."
In the church, speaking in a known language is always the best.

Truth No. 18
1 Cor. 14:22: "Tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe, but to unbelievers"
Tongues are for a sign to unbelievers - as on the day of Pentecost.

Truth No. 19
1 Cor. 14:23: "If therefore the whole church should assemble together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?"

It is madness for all to speak in tongues in a church-meeting - for no one will understand what anyone is saying. (This must obviously be referring to people speaking in tongues individually and not when all are praying together - for in the latter case, we do not listen to the prayers of even those who pray in a known tongue.)

Truth No. 20
1 Cor. 14:26, 27: "What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and let one interpret;"

Not more than two or three should speak in tongues in a meeting of the church, but each "tongue" must be interpreted. "Interpretation" is not the same as "translation". Translation is "word for word". Interpretation is "expressing the thought in one's own words".

Truth No. 21
1 Cor. 14:39: "Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues."

This then is the conclusion. Don't forbid the exercise of the gift of tongues. But if you are desiring a gift, seek for the gift of prophecy more than for the gift of tongues.

The devotion of our heart to Christ is far more important than our speaking in tongues. "Do you love Me more than everything else?", was our Lord's question to Peter, before commissioning him for His service. Arguments about "speaking in tongues" are therefore a diversion arranged by Satan to sidetrack believers from total devotion to Christ.

The greatest Christians in the world have been those who loved the Lord Jesus supremely - whether they spoke in tongues or not. Some like Peter, James, John and Paul spoke in tongues. Others like John Wesley, Charles Finney, D.L.Moody, A.B.Simpson, William Booth, C.T.Studd and Watchman Nee never spoke in tongues (as far as we know). But they all received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, they all loved the Lord with all their hearts and they ALL walked the way of the cross. These truths were central in their lives. Other things were secondary.

Let us follow their example and we won't go wrong."

- Zac Poonen

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15276&forum=34&9]The full article[/url]


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/9/22 1:21Profile





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