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MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3247
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

jimdied2sin wrote:
Who have I condemned? False Teachers and their followers?
Blessings to you in Christ - Jim



No comment other than you will reap what you sow, so my advice to you would be, to be real careful what you say about God's house were he may still be molding and his Children.

Man was created to have fellowship with God but, because of his own stubborn self-will, he chose to go his own independent way and fellowship with God was broken. This self-will, characterized by an attitude of active rebellion or passive indifference, is an evidence of what the Bible calls sin.


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2007/9/26 12:51Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

In house church, everyone is able to teach or be taught. There is none that are "closer to God" then another. We all share equally.

Here is how my house church goes. It is not alsways the same, but this is a great generalization for explanation purposes.

Everyone begins to arrive around 6:00pm All bring a dish to share for dinner, and dinner gets prepared. Everyone is intermingling and talking. Kids are everywhere, inside, outside having fun together.

We pray over dinner, sit down to eat, talk and share.

After dinner, we usually move into one area (the adults) and begin to dive into the Word. We may also meet in smaller one-on-one groups or multiple groups (depending on where the Spirit is leading us) and dive in.

We usually end the night in prayer. Everyone prays, but doesn't have to. We usually lay hands on those that need healing or deliverance of something. We pray. We pray. We pray.

The night ends around 10-11pm Kids are usually getting crabby by this time and need to go to bed. After bed time, my wife and I discuss what was talked about and then pray some more for what ever needs to be prayed about.

We may sometimes have worship (With music) before, during or after. We may pray the entire time, worship, or get into each others lives. The point is, the Spirit leads. Moving together as one body of believers.

In Christ

Miccah


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Christiaan

 2007/9/26 12:55Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3247
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

Miccah wrote:
In house church, everyone is able to teach or be taught. There is none that are "closer to God" then another. We all share equally.
In Christ

Miccah




Contrary to popular belief this can still happen at any Church "if" you are led by the Spirit and not led by your Pastor. I go for the fellowship and for a Word now that Word can come through my Pastor or other believers that's up to God and that totally depends on if you have God in a box or not, me personally I don't have God in a box I am led by the "Holy Spirit"


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2007/9/26 13:09Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Jim, I have my doubts as to whether or not you're ever gonna get it. So just nevermind. Keep driving people away... then you can have the forum all to yourself.



Brother, I don't believe I have ever treated you in a way as to drive you away. (that I can remember). I have always written you with love and made sure at special times to express that. If I truly am just driving people away because I do not agree with the masses, then so be it, but you do not know that is the fact, and again I have always treated you with love as a brother even when I think you are in great error theologically or are being unloving, disagreeable, etc.

Extra love to you in Christ - Jim

 2007/9/26 13:15
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Just Pondering ... not Attacking ...



Bro BillPro ...

--- i wasn't attacking bro Osteen or your church :-o ...

i was just wondering what i posted, which in many respects is what i wonder about ALL mega-churches in light of our present economic situation ... It takes a lot of money to run big, huge, and in the case of The Compaq Center "the biggest" Church ... And my comment about who bro Osteen said he relies on to keep it viable i heard with my own ears, and sorry if it tweaks you wrong but it did make me cringe in that we're experiencing the same thing in our little 3,500 seat mini cathedral ... Pastor says he's relying on our Lord for the mortgage, but the $$$ raising gimmicks say otherwise (not saying ya'll have gimmicks ok) ... But we do ---


Bro BillPro you wrote; ...
This is why I don't come here much anymore this started out to be a good wholesome informative thread until "someone" had to call out a specific Church. Last time I looked "GOD" was still in control of "everything" and that would include all the Churches."

--- Amen He's still in control of everything, but last time i looked it seems like many of us (saints and churches) have forgotten that, and it's my "drama" that i believe He's about to remind us all ...

And amen i can understand why you've perhaps abandoned SI Forum somewhat, one definetly has to be a Timex kinda person who "can take a lickin and keep on tickin" ... Lord knows if i didn't have a faith covered in Rhinocerrus hide id'a absconded a long time ago ---


Bro BillPro you wrote; ...
"I will not go on here and get sucked into any movements or jump on any bandwagons but I personally see a lot of souls being saved at "Osteens" place and personally if you have never been there to really see how the Holy Spirit works in that place through the people "which are the Church" I would not be wondering if Osteen will be able to sustain The Compaq Center once the U.S. economy hits crisis" ...

--- Praise God ... i wasn't trying to bait anyone ...

i watch Osteen from time to time, like some of his messages and the diversity of saints in the audience, a real good looking crowd - tho i'm not to much on the opening jokes (i'm legalistic you know), and get pretty turned off with all the "on sale" stuff flashing on screen during the message, but i'm like this on any ministry, not just Joel's ...

Bro i hope this doesn't rub you the wrong way, but i got a cringe again when you said "Osteens place" ... Yeah i admit that perhaps amongst a lotta saints i'm a bit weird about things like this, but i get the same cringe when my pastor call himself "the founder" of our church ... i think ALL glory should go to God, and that we saints should go just as far out of our way to call attention to Him as we do in calling attention to ourselves ... We like "me", "me", "me" - but find it tedious to say "He", "He", "He" ... i'm often taken aback when i point out to saints that we should make it plain God as origin of every good, and perfect thing coming from above, and they pooh pooh it with "Well you know, or they know what i mean" ...


Bro BillPro you wrote; ...
"God is not worried about any crisis at least the one I serve is not."

--- Amen ... but a lot of men sure are, even saved ones, and especially pastors with big churches and fat mortgages ... i'm seeing it on my level, perhaps it hasn't hit Lakewood's level yet, perhaps it never will, at this point only God knows, but it still doesn't stop someone like me from wondering what would the fallout be (or falling away be) if say half the American population suddenly found itself unemployed ---


Bro BillPro you wrote; ...
"Just seems like some folks are not satisfied with just good old wholesome informative threads here anymore they much drag in there own drama, wonder what God would think about someone like that, and if they would ever be able to sustain as a Christian."

--- Bro God knows when it comes to Him and His Church if the things i constantly, and recently increasingly wonder about, pray about, post, and say amongst my fellow saints is "my own personal drama", then i'm in need of serious psychiatric help, and i sure wish He'd freed me of it, some 20 years ago when it all first started ... That would've suited me just fine because i don't like being the object of getting folk bent outta shape, especially felloe saints, and especially pastors ... But He is good in that i also believe that He dropped in my spirit at years beginning (one way or the other - my wording) i'll be freed by 2007's end ... And trust me bro if the past 20+ years of "drama", and you said it right it's been "drama", is proven to be of my "self" and not God's commision of me, i'll be gladly walking away from it with no explanation needed, and you and anybody else who might find my wonderings/postings insufferable will never, ever, have to suffer thru another one :-P ...

i say all this in total Christian love - no animosity whatsoever --- :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

 2007/9/26 13:18Profile









 Re:

Quote:
No comment other than you will reap what you sow, so my advice to you would be, to be real careful what you say about God's house were he may still be molding and his Children.



No comment other then what God speaks through Isaiah and Paul... Be real careful what you call "Gods house".

Isaiah 5 NIV
20 Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.

2 Corinthians 6 NIV
16What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people." 17"Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you."

In Christ - Jim

 2007/9/26 13:21









 Re:

Jim,

I think this is what folks are trying to warn you of.

Quote:
Proverbs 17:15 - He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.




Not sure if you have any respect for David Wilkerson, but he had a testimony a few years ago concerning this very scripture.

God smote him during a service and laid him out in pain. God was chastening him, and letting him know, that if he indeed would need to bring a hard word to the people he would need bring it with much mercy. Since that time he has always ended his messages preaching the hope that is in Christ.

The reality is, for all of us, that mercy that is required in our lives, only comes through God's dealing with us in private. We will have no mercy for others unless we have really experienced how wretched we really are. Paul's declaration, "In me, that is in my flesh, dwells NO GOOD THING" was not just words. It was his reality, and it must become our reality, and if we are truly Christ's, by His Grace, He will bring us there...a place of death...weakness. A wonderful place, where Jesus Christ becomes our life.

We will have tremendous patience and mercy for all because we KNOW who we REALLY ARE apart from Christ.

 2007/9/26 13:46
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3247
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

jimdied2sin wrote:
No comment other then what God speaks through Isaiah and Paul... Be real careful what you call "Gods house".
In Christ - Jim



Wow! I am just amazed at the Christian Police these days be careful this be careful that, brother I am still work in progress like "most" of the rest of us here and I will be perfected one day, but some achieve perfection long before others, remember when you were still work in progress? by the way how does perfection feel? :-P


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Mr. Bill

 2007/9/26 14:13Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


MrBillPro wrote:

Quote:

Miccah wrote:
In house church, everyone is able to teach or be taught. There is none that are "closer to God" then another. We all share equally.
In Christ

Miccah




Quote:
Contrary to popular belief this can still happen at any Church "if" you are led by the Spirit and not led by your Pastor.



No disrespect, but did your pastor tell you that?

Quote:
I go for the fellowship and for a Word now that Word can come through my Pastor or other believers that's up to God and that totally depends on if you have God in a box or not, me personally I don't have God in a box I am led by the "Holy Spirit"



If this works for you and the Lord, praise God.

Most everyone who attends house church is able to teach (mind you I did not say that they are called to b e teachers, but only that they can teach). Also, the "teachers" as you may put it are able to be taught. This does not meant that any false teachings are allowed, for any would be stopped. Everyone has something to share, teach and be taught about.

As for having God in a box... God has us in His "box". We are lead by the Spirit. And He never turns His back on His elect.

[u][b]Matthew 23:9-11 (New King James Version)[/b][/u]
9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.

[u][b]1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (New King James Version)[/b][/u]
"12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

I put my faith in The Lord and what He says, over what man says.

This is one of those situations that when someone tells me that I need to "listen to man over God", I move to "end the discussion".

In Christ

Miccah


_________________
Christiaan

 2007/9/26 14:39Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4501


 Re:

Hello...

I would urge those interested in the history of the Church to research the beginnings of Church "administration," "cathedrals" and "houses of worship."

The first indication of modern "houses of worship" comes from the infusion of Roman Catholicism into the Roman Empire during the days of Constantine. After Emperor Constantine "converted" to Roman Catholicism, he declared that the entire Roman Empire was now "converted." Instead of building new places for meetings, the already existent Roman temples (mostly used for the worship of Greco-Roman gods) were “converted” into “Christian” places of worship. The priesthood (including many of their practices, creeds and robes) was simply an alteration of the already existent priesthood for pagan gods. The “Roman Holidays” simply were transformed into “Christian holidays” – even keeping the names of some (in the case of Easter). Adoration of multiple Greco-Roman gods simply transformed into the adoration of “saints” by the newly formed Roman Catholic Church. Subsequently, the Protestant Reformation was more “catholic” in its initial appearance and practices. Even most of the Anglican translators of the King James Version embraced many of these “high church” practices.

Where did the early Church meet? Did the “day of Pentecost” happen in the “Upper Room” (like most tend to believe)? The “upper room” was rented by the apostles for the Feast of the Passover. It is unlikely that they remained there until Pentecost. It is also unlikely that the thousands of foreigners could have heard them “speaking in tongues” from the upper room. First of all, there wasn’t a room in Jerusalem that could seat three thousand. Secondly, the Bible makes it clear that the believers used to assemble together at [i]Solomon’s Colonnade[/i] (also called [i]Solomon’s Porch[/i]) – which was also the only place near the Temple where the Gentiles were allowed to gather (Acts 5:12). This was the large, open-air meeting walkway (filled with 38 foot tall pillars) that led to the Temple. Some Bible scholars believe that the “Day of Pentecost” occurred at Solomon’s Colonnade in the early hours of the morning. Regardless, it is clear that the believers did not confine themselves within the walls of a particular building. They met at the Temple and in one another’s home by Acts 2:46, and at Solomon’s Colonnade by Acts 5.

We might do well to remember that the true church has always existed outside of the established or accepted church body. Throughout the duration of the “Holy Roman Empire” and the subsequent Inquisition, believers met in one another’s homes. To this day, believers still meet in a similar manner in the Middle East, India, North Korea, China and Cuba (amongst other places where the Church is still persecuted).

Knowing this, I am all for the “house church” movement. There is a great deal of liberty felt at places that are not bound by Church “constitutions,” lists of required "fundamentals of the faith," or pastors/denominations on “authority trips.” Such house church meetings were common in the United States in the early days of this nation. The distinguishing feature of early Congregationalists was that they met in homes rather than organized “houses” of worship. The true Church transcends both physical and doctrinal (and denominational) walls. It is with open home meetings that believers seem to find the greatest degree of spiritual liberty. Besides, a “revival” isn’t truly a “revival” unless it continues out of the “house of worship” and into the home and true spiritual “temples” of the believer.

:-)


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Christopher

 2007/9/26 15:54Profile





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