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KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

James was a very key figure in Jerusalem: Acts 12:17, 15:13,21:18, Gal.2:9



No doubt. Such is evident. However, being a key figure is a far cry from the monarchical bishop role he is often interpreted as being. Monarchical bishops (or modern day lingo, Sr. Pastors) are later historical developments.

Quote:

Also to note it is not proven that James was not a Apostle. He rejected Christ in John 7:5 and later believed in 1 Cor.15:7 He has never been named an apostle, but a close associate. Gal. 1:19



Actually, Galatians 1:19 goes beyond simply calling James a close associate. Gal 1:19 calls him an apostle:

Gal 1:19 (NASB) But I did not see any other of the apostles [u]except[/u] James, the Lord’s brother.

Paul recalls his visit to Jerusalem and says he did not see any other of the apostles, with the exception of James, who is the Lord's brother.

:-)


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Jimmy H

 2007/9/25 22:13Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

i see a big contrast in what we would call "home fellowship" today and what the New Testament church was like. I personally don't have a problem going to a church building as long as it is a biblical run church.



Yeah, to me I don't care one way or the other if folks meet in homes or in a more traditional sanctuary. Frankly, it seems the New Testament church met wherever they could find a place to meet. Most often they met in homes, but they also met in public places, schools, etc.

Quote:

There is a a group that considers themselves the true church in California. they meet in homes and follow the Acts style church. But they are a cult and are filled with hatred.



Cults exist and can multiply in homes just as well as traditional denominations. Jim Jones type figures don't discriminate!

Just a friendly suggestion, but don't let your experience of this group give you a negative picture of the so-called "house church." Personally speaking, I've met loonies in the house church movement. But at the same time, I've met some of the most balanced believers one could hope for. Same goes with traditional churches as well.

Personally speaking, as far as house church "networks" go, those associated with the NTRF (www.ntrf.org) have been the most balanced I have come across yet. They probably are closer aligned with your theological tradition as well, being very "reformed" in most of their doctrines. Most the pastors/guest speakers I have met associated with these groups have some sort of baptist/reformed theological seminary training on top of it. Granted, I'm not personally "reformed" in my theological tradition, but kudos to those who are :)


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Jimmy H

 2007/9/25 22:30Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Another great thing about house church is that for the most part, only very strong believers (in Christ) will attend. Most luke-warm believers or Sunday morning quarterbacks will never set foot in a house church. Why? Well, because there is too much accountability and direct talks about your walk.

What sometimes people fail to realize about house church folk is that they are there by choice. Most luke-warm believers or non-believers usually do two things when confronted with the directness and straight forwardness in house church; either they leave and never come back (to house church), or they are drawn in by the Spirit. There is never an attack on a non-believer or luke-warm believer, but just the direct one-on-one conversation, in a "safe" setting, that allows other believers to help teach the truth. You usually don;t get this type of intamacy in a goup of 1000, you do in a group of 6-12 (not including kids)


[u][b]Luke 6:43 (NKJV)[/b][/u]
"[ A Tree Is Known by Its Fruit ] “For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit."

Most believers are looking an intimate experience with the Lord. Most believers will not stop in their persuit the Lord, and will not stop until they find it, and will continue to seek more of it once it is found. Iron sharpens iron, and from my experience with house church, the sharpening never ceases.

A lot of thought goes into making a break from a traditional church and moving to a house church, and I would stress that anyone thinking about moving to a house church pray and fast before undertaking this move. Let the Lord lead you where He wants you to go. Don't just go where you or others think may look (excuse the term) "sexy".

As for cults. I think that there needs to be a distinction between cults and house church members. Look at the first century Church. They met in houses and in the temple. They were looked at as a cult by the people of that time, and look where their "cult" stands today. If anyone is teaching something that is unbiblical and not considered a "debatable subject", I would suggest to high tail out of there, regardless if it is in someones home, or a mega-church.

As for leaders in the church, there are elders that are in the church. As was stated before, there is no one set "pastor", but there are leaders of the church, headed by the Lord. It kind of reminds me of [u][b]Acts 21:17-21 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

"17 And when we had come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord."

The elders of the church meet weekly and sometimes daily. The house church leaders come together (elders and those that "lead" the house church) everyother week to discuss the direction. House church "member" (I do not like using that term, but it is the easiest way to explain those who are not elders or leaders of a house church) talk and meet on a multitude of levels. So, it is just like anyother traditional church less the human traditions.

Hopefully I've helped gain a little insight for those who are unaware or hesitant about house church. By all means, this is not how every house church is, as I would hope it is not. All house churchs work differently then the others, all headed by the Lord. The body needs ALL the parts to work properly, as does the Church.

There is something to be said about breaking bread with other believers. The Lord says to do this often. Who better to share a meal with then fellow believers.

Love ya

Miccah


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Christiaan

 2007/9/26 0:15Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:
Yeah, to me I don't care one way or the other if folks meet in homes or in a more traditional sanctuary. Frankly, it seems the New Testament church met wherever they could find a place to meet. Most often they met in homes, but they also met in public places, schools, etc.



They did all of this all the while dodging being persecuted and killed.

I do not want to get to far off topic and do not want to go down the theology road, but I will leave this in a broad statement as to "include" everyone, so bare with me :-)

Regardless on your stance on the pre, mid or post rapture theories in the end of days (Revelation), at some point in these days, believers will be on the earth, reagardless if it is before, during or after the tribulation/great tribulation.

Once the persecution starts and the mark of the beast is issued, where do you think people will be "holding church" and meeting? I don't think that believers will be meeting in mega-churchs (unless they are worhiping the beast). I have a feeling that it will be behind closed doors and in "believers homes". Sounds kind of like the believers in this time will be holding a "mandated" house church, if they want to meet as believers together.

Just a thought.

In Christ

Miccah


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Christiaan

 2007/9/26 0:48Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Once the persecution starts and the mark of the beast is issued, where do you think people will be "holding church" and meeting? I don't think that believers will be meeting in mega-churchs (unless they are worhiping the beast). I have a feeling that it will be behind closed doors and in "believers homes". Sounds kind of like the believers in this time will be holding a "mandated" house church, if they want to meet as believers together.



Indeed, this is how it is in China. In China, the house church is really the only way one can "have church."


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Jimmy H

 2007/9/26 6:48Profile









 Re:

Boy I hate it when I take a hiatus from this forum... because it never fails, a topic comes up that I think I can lend some insight to.

The concerns about house churches echoe the same concerns people have about homeschooling, yet homeschooling has more than proven itself as a viable option. Many Ivy League colleges are actively recruiting homeschoolers because of the proven track record. Every year in the National Spelling Bee about 25% of the finalists are homeschoolers.

I am aware that there are some who homeschool that ought not to. But that doesnt mean we dismiss all homeschooling because of a handfull of people who do it wrong.

The same should be said for house churches. Are there some that get off track? Of course. But they are a very small minority.

Scripture shows us how to set up church government. It isnt a free for all, but it also isnt set up like most traditional churches do it... which is nothing more than a copy of corporate America.

In our house churches we have a "board" of elders who over see. No one man decides anything on his own concerning the direction of a house church. No pastor who controls everything.

We have teachers, evangelists, etc etc... and everyone is expected to participate.

As for a statement of faith... we have but one: The Word of God.

Krispy

 2007/9/26 8:31
running2win
Member



Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA

 Re:

We home churched for three years. I would do it again in a heart beat. We started with about 6 families but had to all seperate after a year or so because there were alot of irreconcileable differences in belief but it was a perfectly clean and loving church break-up. The only one I've ever seen. Everyone had a stronger love for each other after the seperating than before.

We ended up with just two- sometimes three- families for the next two years. There have been many times in the past seven years since we used to home-church that I longed to have those home-church years back.

And as far as home-schooling.... it's the only way to go! I wouldn't trade my years of home-schooling for the best public or private school. My schooling was cut off very early though because dad lost his job. My younger brother and I had to quit school and help dad work doing whatever odd job he could find. I have have always regretted not being able to finish my education. Anyway, I'm getting off subject again.


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Jeff Mollman

 2007/9/26 8:46Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Indeed, this is how it is in China. In China, the house church is really the only way one can "have church."



Not true jimmy, you can join the state sponsored "christian church"... which is similar to our mainline evangelical denominations. Food for thought.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/9/26 8:54
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:

jimdied2sin wrote:
Quote:
Indeed, this is how it is in China. In China, the house church is really the only way one can "have church."



Not true jimmy, you can join the state sponsored "christian church"... which is similar to our mainline evangelical denominations. Food for thought.

In Christ - Jim



With all due respect Jim2, the "state sponsored" church in China doesn't allow for full belief in the bible and practive of its word. Plus, if you don't follow what the state believes, you are not allowed to "hold church". Then to top it off, they also use torture and prison to keep the true Christians in line with governmental though.

I would have to say that the church in China is not even close to the evangelical churches in America, unless the ones in America are torturing people and not preaching the Gospel.

Read the book "The Heavenly Man". May change your perspective a little bit on house churches in China.

Love ya

Miccah


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Christiaan

 2007/9/26 9:54Profile









 Re:

Quote:
you can join the state sponsored "christian church"... which is similar to our mainline evangelical denominations. Food for thought.



I'm all for speaking out strongly, but there is hardly any comparison between the communist state controlled church in China and the mainline evangelical denominations in the US.

I agree there are a lot of problems with the American church, but lets at least be honest in our evaluation of the situation.

Comments like that, Jim, may sound bold and prophetic to some, but in all honesty... well, it's just not in possession of the facts.

Krispy

 2007/9/26 9:59





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