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 Re:

Brother Jeff, thank you for your reply.
"Nominal" means, "in name only". Those professing to be Christian - not babes.

The argument of active faith or believ-ing rests on -- "The present participle is used 48 times which denotes [u]continuous action[/u]. This accounts for over half of all the usages we are considering."

I think Dr. Reasoner did a great job of it.
His name suits him.

Appreciate your appropriate use of Scripture.

 2007/9/21 0:35
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

He_Reigns wrote:

Quote:
"Nominal" means, "in name only". Those professing to be Christian - not babes.



I should have worded my response more clearly...Paul teaches that those who he considers to be carnal christians are babes in Christ. Paul points to the fact that distinguishes a babe in Christ as one who does not understand Spiritual things...

1Cor. 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal.

I have found that Scripture teaches us of a progression in understanding. Those first weaned are considered children. If you read through 1 John, you will find that the majority of his instruction is pointed at the children of the congregations. Yet John also identifies that there is a difference between the children, young men, and fathers within the congregation of believers...

1John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

1John 2:12 I write to you, little children,
Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I write to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
Because you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, little children,
Because you have known the Father.

1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

1John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.

1John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

1John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

1John 4:4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

1John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.


Quote:
The argument of active faith or believ-ing rests on -- "The present participle is used 48 times which denotes continuous action. This accounts for over half of all the usages we are considering."



This "continuous action" is the process by which the "little children" begin to follow the Spirit. This process continues to stretch and grow those who diligently take part in this "continuous action."

The little children are grown spiritually into young men who are said to have the word of God abiding in them strongly. This abiding of the word enables them to discern both good and evil...

1 John 2:

14 I have written to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men,
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one.


Until one is able to discern the spiritual battle one often reacts according to the 'old man" ways of doing things.

What John MacArthur does not point out, is the other part of the argument...that is the present day preacher teaches that one can be a carnal christian (babe in Christ, according to Scripture) and once saved always saved. This teaching leads many astray...

Jesus taught that a slave of sin does not abide in the house forever and Paul teaches that one who sows according to the flesh will die a spiritual death.

Do you see the distinction that Scripture presents here?

God Bless
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/21 2:47Profile
poet
Member



Joined: 2007/2/16
Posts: 231
Longview WA

 Re:

The Gospel in poem form.
I wrote this a few years ago.

Jesus has a love for us
that no one can compare
a love that had to pay a price
that no one else could bare
he bore the weight of all our sins
and took them to the ground
to bare our own iniquities
we would surely drown
praise the lord he rose again
our God for us sinners slain
trust in him and as promised
he'll free us from our chains.

yes, the gospel is Who Jesus is, what he has done for us and what he is doing in us..
freeing us from the power of sin and bondage.
and bringing us into right relationship with our father in heaven.


_________________
howard

 2007/9/21 3:58Profile









 Re:

Good Poem Poet. Thank you!

Jeff - I see "carnal" differently - more as Paul meaning "those who should know/do better".

Those who live after the flesh and those who have not studied. Who do not live after The Word.

Otherwise, I'm tracking with you on spot.

Just to post two examples of those on the "milk" who should not still be and it's affects --

Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskillfull in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Thank you brother.

 2007/9/21 15:07
john1140
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 34
A Sister in Christ from Michigan

 Re:

Some people use the term "full gospel" in respect to an inclusive gospel doctrine (everything from Genesis to Revelation is considered full gospel, gifts of the spirit, baptism of the HS, etc..). Tell me, is there a difference between the notion of a full gospel as opposed to the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Thanks,
sonya


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Sonya

 2007/9/21 15:50Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

Quote:
Tell me, is there a difference between the notion of a full gospel as opposed to the gospel of Jesus Christ?



There is no difference...Jesus Christ is the word of God, the Alpha and the Omega. All Scripture reveals the work of Christ in those who enter into a life lived by faith. The OT is full of instruction as to this mystery that Paul preaches about. Even the oldest book of the bible gives us the "good news" of a life that finds his or her Savior...

Job knew his Savior...

Job 19


Job 19:23 "Oh, that my words were written!
Oh, that they were inscribed in a book!
Job 19:24 That they were engraved on a rock
With an iron pen and lead, forever!
Job 19:25 For I know that my Redeemer lives,
And He shall stand at last on the earth;
Job 19:26 And after my skin is destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God,
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself,
And my eyes shall behold, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

This is the Gospel that he heard...

Job 36:5 "Behold, God is mighty, but despises no one;
He is mighty in strength of understanding.
Job 36:6 He does not preserve the life of the wicked,
But gives justice to the oppressed.
Job 36:7 He does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous;
But they are on the throne with kings,
For He has seated them forever,
And they are exalted.
Job 36:8 And if they are bound in fetters,
Held in the cords of affliction,
Job 36:9 Then He tells them their work and their transgressions--
That they have acted defiantly.
Job 36:10 He also opens their ear to instruction,
And commands that they turn from iniquity.
Job 36:11 If they obey and serve Him,
They shall spend their days in prosperity,
And their years in pleasures.
Job 36:12 But if they do not obey,
They shall perish by the sword,
And they shall die without knowledge.[fn1]

Job 36:13 "But the hypocrites in heart store up wrath;
They do not cry for help when He binds them.
Job 36:14 They die in youth,
And their life ends among the perverted persons.[fn2]
Job 36:15 He delivers the poor in their affliction,
And opens their ears in oppression.


All those who live by faith, who hear the word of God and do it will be as Scripture above states...

Job 36:7 He does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous;
But they are on the throne with kings,
For He has seated them forever,
And they are exalted.


In Christ
Jeff







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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/22 7:47Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

He_Reigns wrote:

Quote:
Jeff - I see "carnal" differently - more as Paul meaning "those who should know/do better".



Paul begins his letter to the Corinthian church in this manner...


1Cr 1:1 PAUL, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

1Cr 1:2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Cr 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cr 1:4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus,
1Cr 1:5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge,
1Cr 1:6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you,
1Cr 1:7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Cr 1:8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cr 1:9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.


In this section of Scripture we find that the Christ was confirmed in them. Paul states that they have received all things pretaining to Christ. Yet there is a problem...

Paul identifies that many of the Corinthian church are "babes in Christ."

A little further in to Paul's evaluation of the Corinthian church this is what he has observed...


1Cr 4:14 I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you.
1Cr 4:15 For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Here again we see that Paul is writing to the children of the congregation. Paul points out that thought there might be 10000 instructors yet there are few fathers...

What seperates a "babe in Christ" a "child" who may even teach the word of God from a "father in Christ?"

God Bless
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/22 8:00Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3705
Ca.

 Re:

The Final Gospel by Warren Litzman:

There are great numbers of believers who do not know there is a final gospel. For centuries theologians have erroneously maintained that there is only one gospel in the Bible. This is grave error but worse is the fact that such untruth has kept multitudes unaware that Christ lives in them and is their only life to God (Gal. 2:20). Why would anyone maintain such an idea when the Scriptures are so clear? I see that there are at least five reasons for this grave oversight and confusion of interpretation.


1) When believers are denied the facts of the seven dispensations in the Bible, they can never know who God is talking to or why. The study of the different dispensations open up the fact that God had a different message in each one of the dispensations. When you see this it becomes simple to see that God had a different message for the Gentiles. While God has but one plan it is broken into many different parts. Seeing this difference is knowing your Bible.


2) Unless you know the difference between the ministries of Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus our Lord, you can never understand the final gospel. When Jesus of Nazareth was sent to Israel He came to His own, but His own received Him not. The facts concerning His coming to Israel is one great truth, but Jesus, the Lord of our life, was sent to live in believers, whether Jews or Gentiles. Such an idea as this is not an extension of the work or words of Jesus of Nazareth. While it is the same Jesus that healed the sick, raised the dead, cast out devils and performed miracles and is the same Jesus that lives in believers today, the gospel for these two different works of God require two different messages.


3) This confusion over the final gospel exists because of the denial, by many, of the Apostle Paul’s message which he called my gospel. Paul must be accepted as God’s last voice for the ultimate truth. He is the last God appointed Apostle, he is the final teacher of grace and his words alone set the pattern for modern believers “Follow me as I follow Christ (I Cor. 11:1).” Unless you follow Paul it will be difficult to know Christ in His fullness as Paul says three different times, “God gave the final gospel to me to give to you” (Eph. 3:17, Col. 1:25, I Cor. 9:16-17).


4) Most believers do not know the radical division there is in the Scriptures. That is the difference between prophecy and the mystery. Prophecy occupies at least 4/5 of the Bible and is based on law and legalism. Paul’s teaching on grace is the message to the born-again and only occupies 1/5 of the Bible. The final gospel, the mystery, is to be found mostly in the 1/5. This by no means nullifies the 4/5 of the Bible.


5) The misplacement and the misuse of the Holy Spirit has kept many from the final truth. Most have erroneously taught the Holy Spirit is Christ. They teach that the believer is only “in Christ” when the believer receives the Holy Spirit. However, the life is only in the Son, Christ’s Spirit is joined to our spirit, and the Holy Spirit is joined to our soulish part (the mind) and is the teacher of the Christ-life.

End.


Paul speaks of the Gospel that God allowed him to call "his Gospel, or My Gospel", This is the Gospel that Jesus Christ Gave to Paul personally and only to him that are Born Again and live our life by the Christ that is birthed in us.

Colossians 1:20-29 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

He Received it not of Man, but of Jesus Christ Himself.

This is the "final Gospel" We had the Gospel of Moses by God Himself. We had the Gospel of Jesus Christ to Israel.

Now the Final Gospel: Galatians 1:10-24 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not. Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia; And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ: But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. And they glorified God in me.

In Christ: Phillip





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Phillip

 2007/9/22 23:33Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3705
Ca.

 Re:

By Warren Litzman

Why follow Paul?

There are many religionists who believe following Paul is heresy. I would have felt the same way many years ago. But by the Holy Spirit’s leading I came to see that the Scriptures are plain. The only way that a born-again believer can follow Christ is by first following Paul. This is not a mere idea of my own. It is a truth that is firmly stated many times in the Scriptures (I Cor. 4:16, I Cor. 11:1, Phil. 3:17, Phil. 4:9, Gal. 4:12, II Thes. 3:7, II Thes. 3:9, II Thes. 3:4). These 8 Scriptures give a heavy weight of truth to the fact that Paul received something special from Christ: something that belonged only to the born-again and the Gentiles. Look at the special things Christ gave only to Paul.

1) Paul alone gave us pure grace. In the Old Testament, the word “grace” is usually translated to be “mercy.” Mercy is good, but not pure grace. Mercy is contingent on the recipient doing something to make it possible. This is the opposite of grace. Sadly, too many believers today are being taught mercy instead of grace. In Christianity, grace alone is sufficient (II Cor. 12:9).

2) Paul alone was given the message that the law of Moses and the laws of the Old Testament are abolished at the cross (Eph. 2:15, Col. 2:14). Most believers today are not taught this because modern religion cannot operate without law. Most born-again believers without the fullness of Paul’s revelation will live and die always worried about their law keeping.

3) Paul alone gives to the born-again their final gospel. He received from Christ a message that was strictly to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28), and was not a part of, or even a shadow of the Old Testament or prophecy. It begins in the latter part of Jesus of Nazareth’s ministry in Gethsemane and ends with the rapture of the church (I Thes. 4:15-17). The key to the final gospel is the in-Christ position. The first aspect of in-Christ position was when the sin of the world went into His body as He drank the cup in Gethsemane. From then on everything Paul writes about is contingent on being in-Christ.

4) Paul alone is the one to whom the revelation came that Christ lived in Him (Gal. 1:16-17). The revelation did not come to Peter or James or John or anyone else. Christ in the believer is strictly a Pauline truth. It is truth that was never known by mortals until it was given to Paul (Eph. 3:3-6). It is not only the final gospel, but it is the only workable gospel for today’s believers. Yet most believers know little of nothing about it as they are fed man-made religion daily¾devoid of Paul’s revelation.

5) Paul is the only one in the Scriptures that had a right to say the revelation Christ had given him was “my gospel” (Rom. 16:25, Rom. 2:16, II Tim. 2:8). This is important to our understanding. Since no one in the Old Testament knew this final gospel and since Jesus of Nazareth did not teach this gospel (He taught Moses law) and since no other disciple or Apostle preached this message, it is well that Paul called it his gospel. It is sad that modern religion has not picked up Paul’s gospel. Multitudes could be blessed if they did.

End.

The Gospel of God to Israel, The Gospel of Jesus Christ to His own, The Gospel of Paul by Jesus Christ's final Gospel. This final Gospel is The Gospel of Christ in you the Hope of Glory, a real change in the creature from created to Heirs of God with the birth certificate of God the Father, He is the Birth Right written Father on our birth certificate. Jesus Christ the Seed of the Father in us which produced The last Adam, Jesus Christ and produces Him in us now. John 3:15-17 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 Peter 1:18-25 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

"by the Logos of God" The Word of God.

John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/9/23 0:09Profile
thomasm
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Joined: 2007/8/17
Posts: 116
Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Thanks Phillip

A great change, happened at the cross, and was brought into fullness on the day of Pentecost.
When Jesus said: " It is finished " he wasn't talking about his life. he was talking about this great salvation, this new covenant, this new creation, Adam was the first creation, Jesus was the first born of the new creation, this perfect restoration of all things that were lost in the fall, perfect fellowship with God, the sinful nature destroyed, crucified with Christ, born again with the nature of God. These aren't just words to hang on to, this is a reality now is this life, for all who will dare to throw off their own understandings, and trust Him, the scriptures are all about Him, and this great salvation. In Him we lose ourselves and enter into His perfect rest, where we stop our struggles and working and Jesus Himself becomes our life.
love tom


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Tom weighill

 2007/9/23 4:20Profile





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