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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Clearing Up Some Common Misperceptions of "Particular Redeption"

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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


roaringlamb wrote:
Au contraire ma sœur:
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly

Knowing you would quote from Romans, I specifically said that Paul's writings were to people who already had been brought into the faith.

Yes, Paul's writings were [b]to[/b] people who already had been brought into the faith, but does not mean that it is only [b]about[/b] people who already had been brought into the faith.
Otherwise, Rom 1:18-20 and Rom 2:14-15 is not talking about all mamkind.
However, by your logic, it wouldn't be.

roaringlamb wrote:
If Christ did not die for one person, Then, he created that person to be damned. He caused that person to die in his sins for HIS own pleasure. Therefore God damns for pleasure.

If Christ died for this person, this person would be saved. End of story.

Wrong conclusion.

I bought candies for my wife, she never ate them.
I still bought candie specificly for her, she just chose not to eat them.
This is equal to the atonement, He died for all, some chose not to take advantage of it.
[b]End of story.[/b]

 2007/9/6 23:02Profile

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK


theopenlife on 2007/9/6 8:09:00
I do not understand your reasoning, sir. Your observation does not remove the fact that the verse says "when" and points to "their" purging having taken place when Christ sat down at the throne. Thus, even if this speaks of the writer's sins being purged, it still places the purging at sometime prior to some or all of his audience having any saving knowledge of the gospel.

This is a good and fair question. One of your Calvinist colleagues wrote a book entitled “Redemption: Accomplished and Applied. (John Murray) I have not read the book but I love the title. In our thinking we need to distinguish between the work done by Christ at Calvary and the work performed in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

My reading of Hebrews 1 is that we have a combination of the two themes in the statement. It was after ‘Redemption Accomplished’ that Christ took his seat but this does not cancel out the fact that the effects of his work need to be ‘Redemption Applied’ in the time and space of our personal experience.

In what sense were my ‘sins purged’ before Christ took his seat? Surely in ‘Redemption Accomplished’. Were my sins experientially ‘purged’ 2000 years ago? Surely not. We explored some of this territory some years ago under the theme of [url=]Propitiation and the Red Heifer.[/url] It had one or two revisits over the years but I think it still expresses my views on this here.

I suggest you take and look and renew the conversation there rather than us try to weave in and out of that theme.

Ron Bailey

 2007/9/7 6:43Profile

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


Thank you for responding and letting me know, Ron. I'm in total agreement with your post. We must differ, in that I believe that at the time Christ sat down, He had in mind to apply His all-worthy atonement to only those the Father gave Him, according to the unconditional election of grace.

Same stuff you've read a thousand times, I'm sure. God bless you, and thanks again for the loving respect shown to me and others.

 2007/9/8 17:12Profile

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