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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Why is this a true statement, though not literally found in the Bible?

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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
what was Adam to become?



When Eloheim made Adam, he was made in His image. Since this was the case, he could not have been made more perfect. Adam was never divine nor of the same substance as Eloheim, but a creation. What would have ensued had Adam not sinned can only be left to the imagination because the Scriptures do not tell us this. God in his foreknowledge knew man would sin so had made plans to redeem him before the event ever took place.

Now that the individual can be redeemed, it means his standing with God will be similar to Adam's through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And how this is being lived out is totally dependant on my yieldedness to this voice of the Spirit: do I choose to do things my way, or am I willing to follow him, even when things do not look promising, sensible or logical - from my vantage point. God wants to have a working, loving relationship with us, not just save a soul from hell.

Sometime ago I was struck with the OT's prophets walk with the LORD - and they lived before Pentecost! And I thought why are there so few like that today then decided if there are few it is because people are not yeilded to Him - it is not God's fault but ours, mine. So I started to ask the LORD to speak to me so I will know it is Him (and speak LOUDLY), and to teach me to recognize his voice when he speaks. Sir, I am still in kindergarten in my learning here...I have lots of Biblical knowledge but I want a relationship that will tell me how to do things in my everyday walk of life. And he is teaching me - the problem is me. So I can see he is very patient, but I must not presume upon it either: he is so holy. So at any time during the day I can in my spirit ask God which? where? how? and unless he answers immediately, I know to take the logical route. If he suggests something else that is out of my range of common sense, I will do it in act of faith.

This is what walking with the LORD is about, IMHO.

I feel very vulnerable now having said all this...but this is what I see God wants from all of us and I suspect we are all in one stage or another of this. Some have not realized this to be possible and needed to be instructed and others are growing in it...

My understanding of this issue...do not know if this what you had in mind...

ginnyrose

EDIT: Now to physically birth childen who will automatically follow this path is not a dream come true. Bible history does not teach it and neither does church history. I used to dream that my children would take up where we are in our walk with the LORD and grow more, beyond then where we are. But I have learned they have to start at square one, just like I did or anyone else. Actually, therein lies hope in that redemption and walking with the LORD is not dependant upon heritage by birth. You can have the most ungodly ancestors and still be redeemed from that mess to walk with Him. PTL


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/8/31 9:34Profile









 Re:

Thank you ginnyrose. Let me begin with answering your statement here:

Quote:
When Elohim made Adam, he was made in His image. Since this was the case, he could not have been made more perfect.



If we believe Jesus was perfect man in His flesh, He made no such assertions simply because He was continually sanctifying Himself; making Himself Holy, how can you say Adam could not have been more perfect?

Just curious..... But this needs a respose from you.

 2007/8/31 9:43
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Does God make anything imperfect? Methinks God made Him exactly like he wanted him to be because this is the nature of God. And who am I to question this?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/8/31 14:05Profile









 Re:

ok

 2007/8/31 14:33
whyme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re: Why is this a true statement, though not literally found in the Bible?

Ormly,

Procreation produces natural flesh. New birth or being born again quickens and creates a new spirit. Resurrection and glorification produce flesh that can survive the presence of God. Procreation in humans can produce nor result in perfect flesh. That is why resurrection and glorification is required.

 2007/8/31 14:55Profile









 Re:

Quote:

whyme wrote:
Ormly,

Procreation produces natural flesh. New birth or being born again quickens and creates a new spirit. Resurrection and glorification produce flesh that can survive the presence of God. Procreation in humans can produce nor result in perfect flesh. That is why resurrection and glorification is required.




None of which would have been necessary if Adam had not transgressed and had progressed in becoming what God had intended, i.e., perfection out of innocence instead of perfection out of a new born life, which is now the only way it can be accomplished. Think about that part of it.

 2007/8/31 15:10
whyme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re:

Quote:

Ormly wrote:
Quote:

whyme wrote:
Ormly,

Procreation produces natural flesh. New birth or being born again quickens and creates a new spirit. Resurrection and glorification produce flesh that can survive the presence of God. Procreation in humans can produce nor result in perfect flesh. That is why resurrection and glorification is required.




None of which would have been necessary if Adam had not transgressed and had progressed in becoming what God had intended, i.e., perfection out of innocence instead of perfection out of a new born life, which is now the only way it can be accomplished. Think about that part of it.




I tend to think that God intended the cross to happen and that was the reason the fall was allowed. The cross was God's original plan and purpose. It was not a reaction by God to something unintended.

 2007/8/31 16:24Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Orm,
I cannot believe you can answer a post with one word! What's wrong with you, cat got your tongue (or fingers)?

Now I think you owe everyone here a detailed explanation of what you meant in your original post. And keep it short, to the point and do not speak in riddles! :-P

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/8/31 16:38Profile









 Re:

Quote:

ginnyrose wrote:
Orm,
I cannot believe you can answer a post with one word! What's wrong with you, cat got your tongue (or fingers)?

Now I think you owe everyone here a detailed explanation of what you meant in your original post. And keep it short, to the point and do not speak in riddles! :-P

ginnyrose



Ok, however, I am not going to argue this if you wont take time the to read the scriptures where my reason stems.

Heres one example: And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was [b]very good[/b]. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:31 (KJV)

Very Good. Ginny. Not perfect.

In regards to perfection, I made the comparison for you between Adam and Jesus. You didn't address that but rather came back with your remark that warns me, you really aren't interested:

If we believe Jesus was perfect man in His flesh, He made no such assertions simply because He was continually sanctifying Himself; making Himself Holy, how can you say Adam could not have been more perfect?

So I ask again: How could Adam not have been more than just, "very good"?




 2007/8/31 16:50









 Re:

Ginnyrose wrote:

Quote:
Adam was never divine nor of the same substance as Elohim, but a creation.


True. However, he came by the Hand of Divinity and creation was finished which made it partly necessary for Jesus to be born. The other reason was because Jesus had to come by procreation that He be qualified to atone for man’s sin; the many sons who were born for God who were now in need of a redeemer because of Adam's transgression. You see procreation for the bringing into existence the sons Father was intending for Himself never ceased after the fall.

[i]And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.[/i] Genesis 3:15 (KJV)
Quote:
What would have ensued had Adam not sinned can only be left to the imagination because the Scriptures do not tell us this.


But they do and speculation isn’t necessary. Jesus is called the second/last Adam. Why the second/last Adam? Because Jesus came to save man from eternal separation from God and to also put back in order that which Adam one’s transgression interrupted.

Jesus spent over three years demonstrating to a 4G yr old world the life of what Adam should have exhibited when it was only him and Eve. Then He died to make it possible for you and I to take up where He left off. That is part and parcel of the 'Work of the Cross".
Quote:
God in his foreknowledge knew man would sin so had made plans to redeem him before the event ever took place.


Thank God for His foreknowledge of the events.
Quote:
Now that the individual can be redeemed, it means his standing with God will be similar to Adam's through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.


And more than that did we receive! Adam possessed no indwelling, remember? We are enabled for success by the very LIFE of Christ, he wasn't.
Quote:
And how this is being lived out is totally dependant on my yieldedness to this voice of the Spirit: do I choose to do things my way, or am I willing to follow him, even when things do not look promising, sensible or logical - from my vantage point. God wants to have a working, loving relationship with us, not just save a soul from hell.


Wrong perspective here, ginny. God wants us to have a relationship with Him. Do we love Him that that might happen … even after we say we are “born again”? That should be given
Quote:
Sometime ago I was struck with the OT's prophets walk with the LORD - and they lived before Pentecost! And I thought why are there so few like that today then decided if there are few it is because people are not yeilded to Him - it is not God's fault but ours, mine. So I started to ask the LORD to speak to me so I will know it is Him (and speak LOUDLY), and to teach me to recognize his voice when he speaks. Sir, I am still in kindergarten in my learning here...I have lots of Biblical knowledge but I want a relationship that will tell me how to do things in my everyday walk of life. And he is teaching me - the problem is me. So I can see he is very patient, but I must not presume upon it either: he is so holy. So at any time during the day I can in my spirit ask God which? where? how? and unless he answers immediately, I know to take the logical route. If he suggests something else that is out of my range of common sense, I will do it in act of faith.


What you speak of smacks of the “way of the Cross”. However, I don’t believe you recognize it as such. Learn it and you will embrace it because you will understand it is the only way to son-ship in the Father, the way purpose for Adam…. That he be perfected for Divinity that would have made the incarnation in Jesus unnecessary.
Quote:
This is what walking with the LORD is about, IMHO.

I feel very vulnerable now having said all this...but this is what I see God wants from all of us and I suspect we are all in one stage or another of this. Some have not realized this to be possible and needed to be instructed and others are growing in it...

My understanding of this issue...do not know if this what you had in mind...



I understand. I hope what I stated will explain much of that which I had in mind.

 2007/8/31 17:34





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