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Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
jimdied2sin wrote:
Quote:
Yes, however, I am not accountable for my sins(you, the christian are not eather) because they are covered.

That is heresy if left unclarified...

I will then clarify:

Christians are not responsible(liable) to their record of the sins commited.

We are not charged with sin because [b]Rom 4:8[/b] [color=990000]Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute(be charge with) sin.[/color]
Or:
That person's sin will not be held against him by the Lord.

If we are accountable for our sins, then we will not stand on the day of judgment.

As one modern hymn says (in bold) my point well:
Only by grace can we enter. Only by grace can we stand
Not by our human endeavour, but by the blood of the Lamb
Into your presence you call us, you call us to come
Now by your grace we come. Now by your grace we come
[b]Lord, if you mark our transgressions who will stand?[/b]
Thanks to your grace we are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb

 2007/8/29 14:51Profile
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re: "Do you sin?"

Quote:

Nile wrote:


9. Have you sinned in the past month?
Yes I have unfortunately. This is not a light matter. Within the past month I have rebelled against God and fallen from Grace. I have since repented and turned back to God. There are many causes for fall like this...my faith is new, I am immature, I lack wisdom, I am surrounded by ungodliness, and I still learning the fundamentals of God. Once my sure foundation is laid, the likelyhood of failling away is much much less. (Remember that Peter had flat out denied Christ shortly before preaching the sermon on Pentacost.)


Nile



Hi Nile,

I have a question, are you saying that you lost your salvation (fell from Grace) because you sinned?

I've heared teaching like this before at holiness churches, but I'm not quite sure what you meant by point nine.

Thanks,
Jordan


_________________
Jordan

 2007/8/29 14:56Profile
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

Quote:

HomeFree89 wrote:
Quote:

Nile wrote:


9. Have you sinned in the past month?
Yes I have unfortunately. This is not a light matter. Within the past month I have rebelled against God and fallen from Grace. I have since repented and turned back to God. There are many causes for fall like this...my faith is new, I am immature, I lack wisdom, I am surrounded by ungodliness, and I still learning the fundamentals of God. Once my sure foundation is laid, the likelyhood of failling away is much much less. (Remember that Peter had flat out denied Christ shortly before preaching the sermon on Pentacost.)


Nile



Hi Nile,

I have a question, are you saying that you lost your salvation (fell from Grace) because you sinned?

I've heared teaching like this before at holiness churches, but I'm not quite sure what you meant by point nine.

Thanks,
Jordan



Yes, good question.

First, when I say I "fell from Grace" I mean that God offered me grace to overcome my sin, but I refused it.

What is it I am saved from? Hell? Chiefly, I am saved from the power and domination of sin. Seeing as I became once again a slave to sin ("For you are slaves to whom you obey"), yes I did lose my salvation.

As far as I am concerned, that is all that matters.

---

However, others will ask the question (which I believe to be less important), if I died in the midst of this sin, would I be justified of it? That is, did I lose my justification before God?

Although my conviction on this is not watertight (I acknowledge may be wrong), I believe yes, I lost my justification before God.

I can hear the objections already, "What?!?! That means that if you sin one little sin, like a lustful look or an angry thought, and you happen to die in the middle of it, you'd go to Hell!? That's bogus!!"

I don't think it's bogus at all, I think it's a clear message of God revealed in scripture.

Sin is serious.

Yes, one sin will send you to hell.

If you get saved and live cleanly for a long time, but them happen to sin right before you die, guess what: [b]that's a really really bad thing[/b]. There's a reason we are told to [b]finish[/b] the race well. Paul even describes himself as being able to fall away in 1 Corinthians 9:
But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, [b]I myself should become disqualified[/b].

One sin corrupted all of the universe and doomed an entire race.

Is one sin I commit less heinous?

God will justify no one that rebells against Him. That is sin: to rebel against God.

---

Our God is merciful, and even though one may sin, there still remains hope in Jesus:

1 John 2:1
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

---

Why should it be surprising that it is possible to waver back and forth between God and the world? Especially if ones dedication to God and faith in Him is weak? To do so is extremely careless and extremely dangerous, but it is none the less possible. So it is with Christians who waver between God and sin.

That is the message I see in the Bible.


_________________
Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/8/29 15:33Profile









 Re:

Well, Nile... I dont say this in a condecending way at all, but brother, you are in error. I dont believe you understand the good news, my friend.

You do not lose your salvation when you sin, nor do you lose your justification before God. I'm not sure exactly where the root of your error is, but it seems to me that there is some misunderstanding of grace.

I would recommend you read the letter to the Galations.

It seems to me that among those who believe we can reach perfection in this life, what we see here in your post is the natural result... if you dont live up to this "law", you lose your salvation. In other words, you're earning your salvation, or rather you keep your salvation by your good works.

This is not [b]grace[/b] salvation. Brother what your trusting in is your works.

This is legalism you are promoting.

Krispy

 2007/8/29 16:05
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

*sigh*

Krispy, there's a small army of [u]straw men[/u] in your post. You might want to read my post again.

Quote:
Brother what your trusting in is your works.



I trust in Jesus for mercy, Jesus for grace, and Jesus for the Holy Spirit.

Quote:
This is legalism you are promoting.



According to Websters Online Dictionary:

Legalism.
1. Strict conformity to the letter of the law rather than its spirit.

No, that is definitely not what I am promoting.


_________________
Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/8/29 16:26Profile
HopePurifies
Member



Joined: 2007/4/12
Posts: 181
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Hey Krispy,
I think you misread his post.
Let's say you're a smoker. And you smoke every day. Then you say "I want to quit smoking". So you buy a nicotine patch. The nicotine patch saves you from smoking. But then you say, well, I'm going to smoke anyway because my friends are here and they are smoking. Did you accept salvation from smoking? No, therefore you lost it.
If that nicotine patch was Nile's works, he would indeed be wrong. But time and time again, we have said that it is the grace of God that keeps us from sin.
Obedience is not legalism! Legalism is not loving God, and trying to abide by the rules without the love.
The justification part is a different issue from salvation. So you could call him on that if you want to discuss it elsewhere....
The message of James is that we are justified by a faith that WORKS. You cannot have faith without works and get into heaven.


_________________
Melanie

 2007/8/29 16:30Profile
TonyS
Member



Joined: 2005/1/29
Posts: 154
Kansas City, Missouri

 Re:

Thank you Krispy and Logic for your posts,

And I will only add that the "works" road is surely I hard road to travel.

God Bless,
tonys


_________________
Tony Sexton

 2007/8/29 16:39Profile









 Re:

Hope... I didnt misread his post. And if you think I am promoting anything but holiness, I'm not.

But we do not lose our salvation if we commit a sin. Someone does not live a life walking closely with God, cuss when the heart attack hits them... then, because they didnt have a chance to ask God to forgive them, end up in hell.

Krispy

 2007/8/29 16:47
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Nile wrote:
However, others will ask the question (which I believe to be less important), if I died in the midst of this sin, would I be justified of it? That is, did I lose my justification before God?

Although my conviction on this is not watertight (I acknowledge may be wrong), I believe yes, I lost my justification before God.

I can hear the objections already, "What?!?! That means that if you sin one little sin, like a lustful look or an angry thought, and you happen to die in the middle of it, you'd go to Hell!? That's bogus!!"

I don't think it's bogus at all, I think it's a clear message of God revealed in scripture.

Sin is serious.

Yes, one sin will send you to hell.

You are forgetting that one does not loose his relationship with Christ because of one sin, because it is the relationship that one has with Christ that saves him.
It is relationship with Christ that justifies you.
One can not loose a relationship with Christ even while in the midst of a sin, His blood is still on you.

It is only when one down right forsakes Christ with impunity and does not care about it, that is when one looses the relationship with Christ.

Therefore, you are in error.

 2007/8/29 16:47Profile
HopePurifies
Member



Joined: 2007/4/12
Posts: 181
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Quote:

TonyS wrote:
Thank you Krispy and Logic for your posts,

And I will only add that the "works" road is surely I hard road to travel.

God Bless,
tonys



Matthew 7:14
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.


_________________
Melanie

 2007/8/29 16:47Profile





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