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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What are the Biblical views on providing family protection against evil people?

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 Re:

Quote:
Last time I heard of someone shooting another person in the news, it was still illegal. Killing...still illegal.



No, you're misinformed. In most western countries at least, you are allowed to defend yourself.

Quote:
Who's laws are we using to declare the legality of the issue? America's? Canada's? Thailand's? Man's? Or God's?



According to American law, as stated, we are allowed by law to defend ourselves. And I already addressed what scripture has to say about this... but everyone wants to pretend I didnt say anything about it, and no one has yet to show that what I wrote was wrong.

Ignorance is bliss... so keep ignoring my previous posts. :-) Be blissful.

Krispy

 2007/8/21 16:31









 Re:

Quote:
Also, as far as we know, Jesus never told the disciples to use their swords.



Well that makes sense... LOL :-o

Krispy

 2007/8/21 16:33









 Re:

ok... now that everyone is riled up and calling me a blasphemer... I'm going to abandon this topic. I tend to think the main reason I'v taken so much heat on this is because most folks cant stand it when someone is completely confident in their convictions.

Have fun! Love y'all! (I really do)

Krispy

 2007/8/21 16:48
BradW
Member



Joined: 2006/5/30
Posts: 94
Edmonton, AB, Canada

 Re:

Quote:
No, you're misinformed. In most western countries at least, you are allowed to defend yourself.


Perhaps, but last time I heard of someone shooting another person that man was charged.

Quote:
Who's laws are we using to declare the legality of the issue? America's? Canada's? Thailand's? Man's? Or God's?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


According to American law, as stated, we are allowed by law to defend ourselves.



Ok, just making sure.

Quote:
Matthew 26:52-54 – how Jesus responded when Peter used his sword to cut off the ear of a servant of the high priest: "Then said Jesus unto him, [b]Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword[/b].


This is from an earlier post of yours.
Thank you for the judgment of being ignorant.


_________________
Brad Wright

 2007/8/21 16:53Profile









 Re:

Freebyword wrote:
To all I pray peace over this forum. The enemy that strives to separate the body of Christ through dissention is having his way. Use your time and your energies to seek the will of our Father in this matter.


moe_mac wrote:
The enemy, the adversary, the devil, is the one that wants us to ignore using God's Word and not to discuss God's views and word on everyday situations and in everything. The only people who don't have any peace discussing those things are those who are offended by what others believe the word of God to be. I see comments often that I do not agree with on this thread and others, but I am to strive not to be offended by the the post or the postee. What other people believe God's Word says and speak, right or wrong, has nothing to do with what another believes. I am delighted when I can say Amen to the things other people post and comfirm and learn from a biblical application in the whole council of God in which it the subject applies, which is very vast. God Word unites when it is accepted. It only devides when it is not accepted. My convictions and my compulsions are to tell what I believe to be truth from the whole council of God, and not force what I believe to be truth on someone else because that is an impossible task. We all have the option and the responsibility to confirm truth, determine what we read it is indeed truth and respond to it accordingly. Most of us are well seasoned in hearing people talk out of both sides of their mouth. They say they have the love of Christ, but yet would not defend their family or fellowman from being murderered.
ummmmmmm. Yet these same people would call the police to protect them in a life or death situation and also while dissing the military people who protect them and are the very reason they enjoy the freedoms they have. They are a God sent to us. God sets up and takes down governments.

The police often are required to take a life to save others in doing so, yet they will protest again another group of military people who have the same job and objective to serve and protect others.

It is amazing to me how some people spill out their anti-military rethoric and still yet not have the same thoughts and the same mind in dismantling their domestic police departments. Why are they not using using the same rethoric about saving a ton of money in that area as well and then just say we should just turn the other cheek when the evil people come to do harm to our loved ones. Are those overseas strangers not worth the same love as we are? Are they not important to God even though they don't know he is not Allah. As I said earlier, it seems to me to be taking out of both sides of the mouth. But each ones of us have their own choice and convictions and we should strive to settle it in our hearts how to give an answer to all these things.

The anti-protection military minded people rollover on military protection acts and if they become successful enough, it could eventually could remove any choice and any freedom in everything about everything until Jesus comes and settles matters of evil.
Thanks for the comments and God Bless.

We all are in agreement on the main thing,
Jesus is our Blessed Hope.

 2007/8/21 17:51
FreebyWord
Member



Joined: 2007/5/26
Posts: 97


 Re:



moe, I heard from God August 2006 on this issue when I cried out to Him one morning as I saw clearly His judgment is falling even now, and as we know, increasingly by signs of the birth pangs. I post again below His instructions to me personally. Take it to the Lord asking if they are His instructions for you:

Following is God's instruction to me:

Joshua 21:27 (The Lord talks about, appoints) cities of refuge

Isaiah 27:4-5 Rely on my protection. Make peace with me.

Jere. 31:20 I will remember Ephraim my son. I will have mercy on him.

Rom 8:4 Walk according to the Spirit

Psl 31:4 You will pull us out of the net they have secretly laid.

Acts 5:30-32 God hung Jesus on the cross, exalted Him to grant repentance and forgiveness to Israel. The Holy Spirit has been given to those who obey.

Zech. 13:7-9 Awake O sword against My shepherd and against the man My associate declares the Lord of hosts. Strike the shepherd that the sheep may be scattered and I will turn My hand against the little ones. It will come about in all the land declares the Lord that two parts in it will be cut off and perish but the third will be left in it. I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say, They are My people, and they will say the Lord is my God.






 2007/8/21 18:10Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re: What are the Biblical views on providing family protection against evil people?

Brothers and Sisters,

Matthew 5:38-39
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: [39] But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matthew 5:43-45
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matthew 26:52
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Luke 14:25-35
And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, [26] If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. [27] And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. [28] For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? [29] Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, [30] Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. [31] Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? [32] Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. [33] So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
[34] Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned? [35] It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Romans 12:17-21
Recompense to no man evil for evil.

Col. 3:1-17
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. [2] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. [3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. [4] When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
[5] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: [6] For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: [7] In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. [8] But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. [9] Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; [10] And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: [11] Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. [12] Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; [13] Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. [14] And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. [15] And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. [16] Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

[17] And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Rev. 13:9-10
If any man have an ear, let him hear. [10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Rev. 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

To profess Jesus cost you nothing, but to follow Him will cost you every thing.

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2007/8/21 18:50Profile









 Re:

I think Krispy is exactly correct in his overall analysis of how he would respond to such a scenario, but guess what everyone, NO ONE knows how they respond until God forbid they are in that situation.

I too am a military veteran with serious weapon training, but that doesn't give me a license to kill or to even be motivated about killing. I am simply stating that you all are so doctrinally and spiritually sound that it makes me sickened. You all think you really know what you would do in a given situation, but in the protection of my family and even my self in certain instances, I will defend myself to the fullest degree.

Answers like many on this thread is the reason why people do not respect, want to hear, nor do they want to entertain much of the self righteous talk and discussions that we so-called Christians present.

THink people, just think, it takes simplicity and a prayerful mind to make such decisions or to even come up with a conscious decision.

The Lord Jesus really understands and sees our hearts no matter how clean or ugly it may be.

Even many of these discussions are all flesh driven and flesh consumed. Instead of debating everything, please just bow out gracefully with an " I dont know ".


May our God bless us all
Ejg

 2007/8/21 20:59









 Re:

Quote:

ejg wrote:
I think Krispy is exactly correct in his overall analysis of how he would respond to such a scenario, but guess what everyone, NO ONE knows how they respond until God forbid they are in that situation.

I too am a military veteran with serious weapon training, but that doesn't give me a license to kill or to even be motivated about killing. I am simply stating that you all are so doctrinally and spiritually sound that it makes me sickened. You all think you really know what you would do in a given situation, but in the protection of my family and even my self in certain instances, I will defend myself to the fullest degree.

Answers like many on this thread is the reason why people do not respect, want to hear, nor do they want to entertain much of the self righteous talk and discussions that we so-called Christians present.

THink people, just think, it takes simplicity and a prayerful mind to make such decisions or to even come up with a conscious decision.

The Lord Jesus really understands and sees our hearts no matter how clean or ugly it may be.

Even many of these discussions are all flesh driven and flesh consumed. Instead of debating everything, please just bow out gracefully with an " I dont know ".


May our God bless us all
Ejg



Ejg-

I think you might have missed the point of this thread. The point isn't how we would act in the situation, it is what does the Bible say about how we should act.

I admitted earlier in this that although I believe God would have me act non-violently in such as situation, per the example of Jesus and everyone in the NT without exception, I cannot say with certainty that I currently possess the courage and faith.

This does not mean that I don't hope and strive all the more to have that work done in me. We must constantly strive to lessen the gap between our head and our heart.

And maybe there are some on this forum who can say they are certain of how they would behave in that situation, but its not your job to judge the completeness of their faith.

To be sure, the Bible is full of individuals who have been presented with that test, and passed.

-K_DAY

 2007/8/21 21:46
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

I had some more time to think about this issue today, and read all of your posts.

I had an unfortunate event this past year. A 26 year old man was referred to me. Someone from church vouched for him and said he was a decent guy, a "believer" who was looking to get out of his alcoholic dad's house long enough to find an apartment. I met him and asked questions, prayed, felt uncomfortable, but agreed to let him stay two weeks. He came over and saw my place, fancy computer and camera gear, and left. After I gave him the key he didn't come back for about two weeks, not a word.

One night I was in my room with a friend, a young woman, listening to a Spurgeon sermon. The door opened and in came the man with a second, much larger man. Apparently they thought I was home. I walked out to see the second man stick something quickly in his pocket,either drugs or a weapon. They became really tense and defensive. Both were high/drunk and neither knew Julia was with me. I had told her to stay in the office.

I was praying to God to get us out of this situation. Behind me back was an open hunting knife. I am capable of handling such tools, yet still handling two drunk men is probably beyond me. (Shamgar comes to mind, though) I thought, if this girl isn't saved and something happens to me, she's a gonner and the wicked have done great evil. I made up my mind and told the Lord, 'please get me out of this. If that man goes for his pocket, Lord you know I'll stab him. Please help."

I had no anger at him, no vengeful heart. I knew it was evil to leave the woman to suffer. It is not "evil" to defend oneself from a wicked man.

By the way, someone quoted the verse "do not return evil for evil." An example of that is keying someone's car because they slandered you. Just restraint and punishment is not evil.

Anyway, I asked the men point blank what they were doing in my apartment. They began acting very strange. I called Julia out and asked them to step out of the doorway and to let us leave. They did! As soon as we were out I called the cops who came and dealt with them.

I suppose I can only add this...

Not all violence is morally evil. It may involve inflicting physical evils, such as pain and suffering upon the one it comes upon, but violence does not necessarily make the person morally evil.

Example. Please carefully consider!! Someone you know is involved in a car crash. They are rushed to the hospital unconscious and a decision is quickly made without their consent that the only way to save their life is by amputating one of their mangled limbs. Though they will be in pain for months after this, we agree that despite the physical pain involved, the doctor is not guilty of inflicting moral evil for having operated on them. You see, inflicting pain is not necessarily a moral evil.

There is, I admit, a crowd that forever hates doctors and says all medicine and surgery should be exchanged for prayer only. Some of this crowd says the same of violence. It's not very different.

Now the situation changes. You walk into your home. You've just returned from baseball practice and have a bat in your hand. There is a man committing unspeakable evil in your home against someone you love. You try to resist him in a way that won't kill him but he is determined to kill you and continue harming the other person. There is no time to call someone else (other than God) to help. You pray a feverish prayer. The man does not drop dead. Now what? Do you feel guilty for having to beat the man to whatever extent to save the innocent? If you would do anything else, I expect you to be forever ashamed.

It's a tough situation but it's real, it happens everyday.

Conclusion: moral evil is committed for self gain. Do what you do in love for God's righteousness and to His glory. I am not yet convinced that there are not "times to kill" and that doing so may not somehow be to the glory of God.

Love.

 2007/8/21 22:04Profile





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