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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Four Spiritual Laws (is it biblical?)

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openairboy
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Joined: 2003/9/22
Posts: 85


 Re: quotes

This discussion isn't about proof texting, which much of modern evangelicalism is, but about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which I believe is more about Him being Lord, "confess with your mouth...", and not about "iviting him into your heart". Could you imagine the Israelites asking the Egyptians if they would like to invite YHWH into their hearts? It's rather bowing a knee to the Almighty and confessing that He is Lord.

1 Corinthins 6:9-10, "Be ye not deceived; the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God." So, any time someone tells me you can be unrighteous and still enter the kingdom, I know they are trying to deceive me. Yes, Paul goes on to say, "But that's the way some of your WERE.." You see, that is past tense as well.

Now, to the 4 Laws: I couldn't find the quote on their web site, but when I was in college the four laws had an opening letter from Bill Bright about people not understanding the love of God. There is an aspect that I think this is true, but to modern man he thinks God loves him indiscriminately. Yet Psalm 5:5 and 14:5 tells us that God hates, as well as Esau. The problem isn't that man doesn't think God loves him, but that God would punish him for his sins. The 4 laws are insufficient in this way, but I think the main flaw is the nature of "sharing" the Gospel.

First, when you love someone, a wife, husband, etc., do you introduce them in this manner? No! Remember, we are dealing with the living God and not a set of propositions that we are seeking someone to acknowledge intellectual assent. We are introducing them to the living God! 4 points and a prayer are insufficient for such a task.

Second, We need to return to the preeminence of PREACHING the Gospel. The 4 laws, despite all of its inherent theological deficiencies, fails to PREACH the Gospel. When PREACHING is restored to the primary means of convicting and converting sinners, then I think we shall see revival.

Third, our sinners prayers need to be Biblical. When in our preaching or sharing is anyone asking, "What must I do to be saved?" Or, the outgushing of their heart is simply, "WOE!"

FWIW

 2003/10/14 23:06Profile
aphill777
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 24
Wisconsin

 Re:


Openairboy,

AMEN!!!!


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Tony Phillips

 2003/10/15 0:45Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re: ravenhill on the 4 laws

"There's a lovely little track, what's it called the four laws? [crowd laughing] Do you know why its popular? because its painless. It has no repentance by design, Bill Bright designed it that way, he said: 'I don't want people to think that Campus Crusade is negative.' We'll he's smarter than Jesus, he's smarter than the Apostle Paul, he's smarter than John the Baptist, because he says John begun to preach and to say... what?... next chapter Jesus began to say... what?... on the day of pentecost they said what should we do? and did Peter say read the four laws or go to a convention for a weekend, or take something to calm your mind down your getting upset? Peter on the day of pentecost said the same as Jesus, he said the same as John the Baptist, he said: 'REPENT!'"
[i]*excerpt from [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=871]Purity and Fire - Part 2 by Leonard Ravenhill[/url][/i]


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2003/11/24 17:56Profile
todd
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Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
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 Re:

It should be noted here that late in his life Bill Bright recognized the error he had made in not focusing more on "the negative." The man was humble enough to admit this to Ray Comfort shortly before he passed on.

 2003/11/24 19:05Profile
Clutch
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Joined: 2003/11/10
Posts: 202
Oak Ridge, Tennessee

 Re: The Four Spiritual Laws (is it biblical?)

Greg,
What's the question? If the question is : 1.is it biblical?Then the answer is yes, because the Bible is quoted throughout the text of the tract. But, if the question is: 2.is it ACCURATE biblically? Then, I feel your pain over Rev. 3:20. OR is the REAL question: 3.is it effective biblical evangelism? My opinion is: " I Dunno."
If these tracts are being distributed by prayed up, spirit filled , believers; then,based on the fact that the Word of God , and the Spirit of God are working in concert through these believers; I'd be rather optimistic :-D .
We're seeing more and more seared conciences nowdays, but you don't have to tell most folks that they're sinners (Romans 1:18-20 an example). And we certainly don't have to act like we're glad about it.How did Jesus approach the woman at the well? OR, how about the woman caught in adultery?
In the right hands, there's enough salvation in John 3:16 for the whole world. About 20 something years ago, I wrote this quote from RA Torrey in the back of my Old Scofield:Formula for Revival (Torrey):
1.Let a FEW Christians get TOTALLY right with God.
2.Bind themselves together in prayer groups until the power of God falls.
3.Put themselves at God's disposal.
One thing that sticks out in my mind from hearing Duncan Campbell ( I'm not Hyper Calvinist by any stretch): is that from 1946-53 during the Hebrides Revival 80% of those that were saved, got born again before they were ever preached to. How He do dat? :-D
Changing the subject a little here;in Luke 13:3 and 5 Jesus said, " but except ye repent ye shall all like wise perish." Was He speaking only to non believers? Or, could He also have been addressing those believers in Matt. 6:14-15 that had (a root of bitterness) unforgiveness, anger, wrath , violence, and even murder in their heart? I submit to you that you can murder someone without taking their physical life. I John 3:15 " Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." There's a list in Rev.21:8; I don't want to be on . Certainly not over some of the insignificant humbug, that we get all wrapped around the axle about( vague enough for you)? :-D Well, those are some of my thoughts on the subject brother. I can't say that any of them are original. I truly believe that Godly conviction of sin, and repentance are necessary for there to be genuine conversion. But, it's the Holy Spirit's job to do that, not mine;-)
Clutch :-P


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Howard McNeill

 2003/11/27 17:20Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
3.is it effective biblical evangelism? My opinion is: " I Dunno."


Yes I think that is what I was trying to get at in my question. I think God uses everything for his glory, even preaching of the gospel by people with wrong motives.

[b]Philippians 1:15,18 (kjv)[/b] - Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will. What then? notwithstanding every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Quote:
1.Let a FEW Christians get TOTALLY right with God.
2.Bind themselves together in prayer groups until the power of God falls.
3.Put themselves at God's disposal.


I really like this quote on revival by R.A. Torrey thanks for sharing.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2003/11/28 2:13Profile
almondBranch
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Joined: 2003/10/6
Posts: 91
Tralee, Ireland

 Re:

Quote:

1. No mention of Judgement Day
2. Not a hint of hell.
3. No use of the Law of God to bring the knowledge of personal sin.
4. The gospel is held up as a means of happiness, rather than a means of righteousness




I wholeheartedly agree with points 1 and 4, but when I look at the gospel preached in the book of Acts I don't see any real mention of 2 and 3.

As I recall hell is never mentioned at all in Acts, but judgment is frequently. I think talk of hell is used in evangelism today in a way that ties it in with point 4.[i] Hell is a bad place in order to be hapy don't go there so get saved[/i] But the apostles spoke of the judgment of God which emphasises the fact that you will give an account to a holy God.

I find it strange that many are speaking of the law being used to convict of sin. Never is it used in the Acts in that way. Jesus said when the Spirit comes He will convict the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.

"the law is our schoolmaster" if taken in context is refering to the order of events in Israel's history; the law, then Christ.


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Stuart

 2003/11/28 5:58Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2749
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: using the Law

AlmondBranch wrote:

Quote:
find it strange that many are speaking of the law being used to convict of sin. Never is it used in the Acts in that way. Jesus said when the Spirit comes He will convict the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgment. "the law is our schoolmaster" if taken in context is refering to the order of events in Israel's history; the law, then Christ.



The moral law shows people their sin and danger (Romans 3:20 & 7:7-9). It strips men of self-righteousness. I believe the Holy Spirit uses the law to convince people they cannot save themselves and therefore they are led to the Lord Jesus Christ. It prepares them to receive the pardon offered in the Lord Jesus alone. As you said, the order is, "first law, then Christ".

Jesus certainly used the law to convict men of sin. Read the account of the rich young ruler in Mark 10 (also Matthew and Luke).

Perfect obedience to the Law would accomplish justification before God. The same end is now accomplished through faith in the Lord Jesus, the design of both is the same. It seems that people need to be convinced of their sinfulness before they will embrace the mercy of God in Christ. The law is useful as a means for this end (see 1 Timothy 1:8-9).

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2003/11/28 12:11Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
2. Not a hint of hell.


[b]2 Peter 2:4 (kjv)[/b] - For if God spared no the angels that sinned, but cast [i]them[/i] down to hell, and delivered [i]them[/i] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgement.

It is true to me that the apostles didn't use hell as a way to evangelize the truth to people. But hell has to be mentioned as a truth and the final end in our life if our decision is againt God and his Son Jesus. And even though the word 'hell' was not used I think it was implied much.

[b]Acts 2:21 (kjv)[/b] - And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Saved from what? obviously hell! people understood what Peter was saying when he said they needed to be saved.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2003/11/28 23:19Profile
almondBranch
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Joined: 2003/10/6
Posts: 91
Tralee, Ireland

 Re:

Quote:
Saved from what?



"you shall call His name Jesus for He shall save his people from their sins"

Yes the end result of sin is eternal speration from God. But Jesus did not come to simply save us from the end product. The axe is laid to the root, Jesus came to save us from sin.


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Stuart

 2003/11/29 5:58Profile





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