SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Jesus, First of First Fruits

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

Ormly, I have no more inquiries.

Katy-did

 2007/8/29 11:19









 Re:

Quote:
The "work of Cross" is for the creation of saints. The "way of the Cross" is for their perfection.



Ormly, the Work of the Cross comes after the Way of the Cross.

Are you saying Jesus lived by faith of the Son of God? so, Galatians is about Jesus living by the way of a cross that His sinlessness functioned to begin with? Then why the virgin birth? So you are saying Jesus was not God? Or didn't become God until AFTER He rose from the dead? Jesus Fully God, Fully Man showed up before teh Cross, transfigured on the mount of Transfiguration BEFORE going to the Cross, God Revealing HE WAS the very Glory and essence of God, even calling Him SON before that at his baptism with John the Baptist.


Quote:
This was the WORK that restores man to the condition Adam, by his trangression, interrupted. We can now become what was intended for Adam because of the Blood of the Lamb shed for us.



AND this is incorrect...we are not *restored* back to what Adam was to be before the fall...AKA Restoration Theology.

WE are a NEW Creation In Christ Jesus. Adam before the FAll was NOT a New Creation in Christ Jesus.

 2007/8/29 12:20









 Re:

Anyone else, please.

 2007/8/29 13:25









 Re:

Ormly, regardless of the work of the Cross or the way of the cross, the Bible says this

For the preaching of the cross is to them that parish foolishness, but to us who ARE saved, IT IS THE POWER OF GOD.

So regardless of Adam I taking or not taking up his cross, the power of God was not in it, because there was no WORK of the cross that preceeded a way you seem to think he was to follow.

The Cross, what you call a *principle* of life can not save /sanctify/ or transfigure anyone.

Jesus said, Behold, I call all things NEW.

Only His New Creation in the New Creation washed in the Blood of the Lamb, who are sanctified through that blood, will be forever with the Lord in the NEW Heaven and Earth.

We look forward and up, not back to Eden and down to earth.

I'm done!

 2007/8/29 13:35









 Re:

Quote:
This is the "sinlessness" in which he functioned throughout his missionary life. This is alsThis is the "sinlessness" in which he functioned throughout his missionary life. This is also why John could say that one, in this Spiritual condition; this intimate relationship, could not sin.



Paul NEVER claimed to be sinless, because Paul knew they were of one mind and one accord in the unity of the faith John also saying:


John 1:7-9
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Paul full of Truth, never preached sinless perfection in our now lifetime. Only Glorified at the redemption of our bodies, will that sinless life exist when Jesus comes to take His Saints to our NEW Home, where mansions are NOW being built for us.

Isn't this what Oneness Pentecostal, Restoration Theology teaches? Some here may want to read the warnings on that label.


Love in Christ
Katy-did

Added/ Edited for content and TRUTH:

The Greek word “teleios” (tel’-i-os) is used throughout the New Testament. It is often translated as “perfect” but can also mean “complete,” “full-grown,” and even “mature.” The confusion comes in when various translations use the word “perfect” instead of one of the other meanings. As an example, in James 1:4 it says that we will be “perfect and complete.” But a further reading of the book shows that a better translation would be “mature,” because in James 3:2 it says that we all stumble. Obviously we cannot be perfect and stumble. However, the concept of maturity is compatible with imperfection.

1 Corinthians 13:10; Ephesians 4:13; and Colossians 1:28, 4:12 all should be translated as “mature” or “full-grown” both of which fit in well in each verse’s context. As human beings we are still bound under the curse of Adam. No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. The Apostle Paul scolded Peter (Galatians 2:11-13) for favoritism. Late in his ministry Paul calls himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Peter, James, John, and Paul all admitted that they were not perfect. How could you or I claim anything different?

True perfection will not come until the “Rapture” when we rise to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At this time we will receive a new body (Philippians 3:20,21; 1 Corinthians 15:54). We will attend the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) where our works will be judged and any rewards given (1 Corinthians 3:9-15). We will then live forever and reign with Christ, in sinless perfection







 2007/8/29 14:55
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Ormly wrote:
Anyone else, please.



Well I'm a little confused, so I'll ask a question.

If Adam hadn't fallen...after Adam was transfigured, are you saying He would have become Christ? Or something?

What would be the distinctions between Adam and Christ?

Nile


_________________
Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/8/29 15:00Profile









 Re:

Hi Nile!

Keep in mind Christ was NOT the son of God. Jesus was, as well as being son of man. In reality and actuality the two became one at His birth; Christ being one with flesh and Jesus protecting that relationship in His humanity. Jesus was completely "self-renounced" [a purely human thing here] doing only what the Father revealed for him to do. By this He proved Himself as a human worthy to be for all eternity the embodiment of Christ who was the Word; very expression of the Father. In Glory we will see the nail prints that will testify to this being so.

By a series of moral choices Adam, not unlke what Jesus was presented, was originally intended by God to be what Jesus became, i.e., Christ in flesh and bone. No more Pre-incarnate Christ, ever.

Keep in mind here that in [u]reality[/u] Jesus always was what He became in [u]actuality[/u] but it all had to be worked out through the finger tips of flesh and on the Mount that day He was tranfigured. That was His graduation day.

This from above is now given to us to perform upon our new birth until that day we have our graduation:

"In reality the two became one at His birth; Christ being one with flesh and Jesus protecting that relationship in His humanity"

 2007/8/29 15:40
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

Adam was created a living soul, with no spirit of God or spirit of Satan. Adam chose his spirit nature when he believed the lie of Satan.
"You are of your father the devil." God putting the two trees in the garden new Adam had a choice. Giving him only one command and allowing Adam to choose his and our nature, the nature of mankind which is the nature of Satan, his choice to believe.

Now we can change that by the same platform. To be born again. The same way as Adam chose to believe Satan, we can now choose to believe God who puts the faith of Christ in us to now believe God and become born again son's of the Father God by the Word and Jesus Christ's Seed put in us. The Sperma of God, giving birth to a new creature, a son of God, the ultimate act of Love. Placing Sperma in the ones He has chosen to bring forth, His own natured sons. The son's of God who even angles want look into and waiting for the manifestation of these son's of the living God by The Sperma of God in an act of love the Incorruptable Seed of Christ in you the hope of Glory.

Adam blew it and God all along knowing he would but already choosing a way to overcome Adam's choice unto death and sin. Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

In Christ by the Father's choice and His calling and predestination and redemption unto the praise of His glory. Sealed by the Holy Spirit kept by Christ in us and delivered by the Father.

There is a strange part of God that brings forth life out of death. So Adam, either way He chose God has already planned to work out our salvation in Christ. Even Life out of death.

Galatians 2:16-20 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/8/29 16:26Profile
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Ormly wrote:
Hi Nile!

Keep in mind Christ was NOT the son of God. Jesus was as well as being son of man. In reality and actuality the two became one at His birth; Christ being one with flesh and Jesus protecting that relationship in His humanity. Jesus was completely "self-renounced" [a purely human thing here] doing only what the Father revealed for him to do. By this He proved Himself as a human worthy to be for all eternity the embodiment of Christ who was the Word; very expression of the Father. In Glory we will see the nail prints that will testify to this being so.

By a series of moral choices Adam, not unlke what Jesus was presented, was originally intended by God to be what Jesus became, i.e., Christ in flesh and bone. No more Pre-incarnate Christ, ever.

Keep in mind here that in [u]reality[/u] Jesus always was what He became in [u]actuality[/u] but it all had to worked out through the finger tips of flesh and on the Mount that day He was tranfigured. That was His graduation day.

This from above is now given to us to perform upon our new birth until that day we have our graduation:

"In reality the two became one at His birth; Christ being one with flesh and Jesus protecting that relationship in His humanity"



Alright, I'm getting a better view of what you're saying.

Quote:
Keep in mind Christ was NOT the son of God.



Who was He then, before the world began? I think the way your using the word "Christ" is confusing me. I am accustomed to using "Christ" and "Jesus" interchangeably. Because of course, they are. If Adam had fulfilled his purpose, would "Christ" and "Adam" be interchangeable?


_________________
Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/8/29 16:32Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

Adam was created a living soul, with no spirit of God or spirit of Satan. Adam chose his spirit nature when he believed the lie of Satan.



Where do you come with this notion of "spirit nature"? I don't see that concept in the scriptures.

 2007/8/29 16:55





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy