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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Jesus, First of First Fruits

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The principle of the cross was always in the Father's Mind as the way for man to enter His Presence. Both the work of the cross and the way of the cross were from the beginning in the Mind of God. Adam was His first experiment in this.



Adam was in the presence of God from the Beginning. They seemed to walk and talk together. So I'm not sure what additional presence you are refering to here.

Ormly, the first order of business with Obdience is that we bring *every thought* under the Obedience of Christ. Our own thoughts on a subject are simly that, our own, and if not brought under the obdience of Christ we get off coarse.

We through our surrendered life are being transformed by the renewing of our mind...strictly and by none other than the WORD of God.

Extra biblecal babbel is not His word, and must obediently be put away from us. Not to do so would be disobedience.

I have said NOTHING here that would bring in presumptuous DECEPTION.

We must make sure that the Spirit you are refering to is the Spirit of Christ...The Word of God, as that Spirit cannot, and will not introduce extra biblical babel not in His word, nor will he have any part of it.

When we die to self we are dying to our old adam nature. What nature exactly was Adam to die to to begin with? Adam KNEW exaclty what he was doing with eyes wide open. It was Eve who was deceived, taking a bite of a lie presented to her? She took the bite and it cost dearly. Now we are presented today with Satan wispering in our ear lies and deception and says to us, here, bite. But we know Have a renewed mind (those who do, and have stayed in His Word) and we say no thank you, I eat only teh Word of God. Satan is most clever, even using God's word, as he did in the desert during Jesus 40 day trial. It was God's Word that rebuked satan. Because Jesus knew other scripture that rebuked those Satan was taking out of context. Great lesson here to be learned.

Adam, a shaddow or figure of Him who was to come can also be seen as one who laid down His life for His Bride...with eyes wide open.

Only the Holy Spirit can reveal many deep wonderful truths in these types and shaddows, so also clearly stated in Romans 5:14.....

The principle of the Cross HAS always been in the back of God's mind for US, TODAY, His Church, His NEW Creation. That is EXACTLY what I am trying to say myself. That NEW creation includes a New Heaven as well, corrupted by the fall of satan long before man was formed. Satan didn't fall because of Eve's sin. Satan was a liar from the beginning who rebelled against God. In the New Creation there will be NO SATAN. If adam and eve never sinned, there would have always been a satan on the loose, until when?

The whole plan of God from before the foundation of the world INCLUDED the FINAL overthrow of Satan once an for all and for all eternity.

Since Jesus who is the Word of God and was with God from the Beginning, and IS God, was certainly part of the planning of all. The Lord our God is ONE.

Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did

Love in Christ Jesus








 2007/8/27 13:04









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The beginning was not creation of man. It was the beginning of God... whenever that was.

 2007/8/27 13:09









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Ormly,

My understanding is we are discussing Firstfruits. So please if you would stay on the subject at hand introduced on hhis blog. We are the First Fruits of God's NEW Creation In Christ Jesus.


Romans 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Romans 16:5
Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Corinthians 16:15
I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

James 1:18
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Revelation 14:4
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

God's Plan from the Beginning:

23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.


******27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Totally unlike the first, no satan there to make a lie or deceive.

Praise God!


Love In Christ
Katy-did

 2007/8/27 14:07









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Quote:

Katy-did wrote:

Ormly,

My understanding is we are discussing Firstfruits. So please if you would stay on the subject at hand introduced on hhis blog. We are the First Fruits of God's NEW Creation In Christ Jesus.



I started this thread with that theme in mind. You derailed it as you usually do, taking it in some strange undefinable direction.

 2007/8/27 14:25









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Quote:
I started this thread with that theme in mind. You derailed it as you usually do, taking it in some strange undefinable direction.



Ormly, I have read this whole thread, with wondeful wonderful comments. I copied several of the answers given you about who we are in Christ.

Phillip - ChristInYou gave a perfect and beautiful answer.

Your Quote Ormly:
Quote:
This is what Adam was to have accomplished in him had he entered into the "way of the Cross", after which he would have had the inclination to eat of the "Tree of Life"; to finalize his Transfifuration; to become, to participate as God is, in Human Flesh



But you yourself derailed the conversation with the above quote, that has nothing whatsoever to do with *****Who we are in Christ******. Even when Phillip was telling you along with others telling you...we abide IN CHRIST..the Risen Christ, the Firstfruit of the NEW Creation, not the old.

The first fruits are those alive from the dead Ormly, and according to Romans 7 only those alive from the dead can bring forth fruit to begin with. You know you have passed from death to life when you LOVE the brethren. That's the beginning of our fruit. We also speak the Truth In LOVE. again Fruit.

That fruit is produces via the fellowship of His sufferings, always carrying about in our body the dying of Jesus Christ that the Life of Jesus Christ is manifest in us.

One must be IN Christ for this to happen. God works in as we work out. We are HIS workmanship, and we yield and obey to that workmanship as we abide in Him.

James 1 is another clue how we become perfect and entire lacking nothing. Out Faith is tested. Just like Jesus in the wilderness. God allows Satan to throw up all sorts of false doctrine etc, and He test us. Are we going to believe God, or believe man? Are we going to run and hide, or are we going to put on teh WHOLE armour of God and squelch those firey darts , firey insults, from satan.

As we believe God we are being Perfected here meaning MATURE, not perfect as that we become sinless.

Mature Christians have developed the Mind of Christ and through that development we have been exercised to discern both good and evil. Hebrews.

Love is patient, kind, longsuffering, thinks NO EVIL, etc. Love keeps our brothers and sisters on track and in truth. Sometimes Love is tough love. Proverbs says, the wounds of a brother will result in Love returned, but a scoffer will hate you. Sort of a good sign who has and hasn't yet passed from death to life. When we LOVE the Brethren no matter what, whether we like them or not, that Love will manifest.


Well, Ormly, I must go now.

With Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-Did

 2007/8/27 16:30









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What can i say Katy except you just don't understand why Christ came to Earth. You don't understand His message and what was the Fathers ultimate intention for mankind. Thats too bad.

You must believe God created Adam to fail.

 2007/8/27 17:08









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Ormly, maybe this will help:

Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

******20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; *******

In hope of What? The NEW Creation!

21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.



29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. ( The NEW Creation).


30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Love in Christ
Katy-did

PS added Edited for content
Hebrews 2:

4God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

5For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection THE WORLD TO COME, whereof we speak.

6But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?





 2007/8/28 8:11









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It doesn't ... sorry

 2007/8/28 12:09









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1 Corinthians 2:7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

 2007/8/28 13:46









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Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
1 Corinthians 2:7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:



Who is "we"?

 2007/8/28 14:17





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