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BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Is Holiness A Fad Or Should It Be A Way Of Life?

I am fascinated, coming onto Sermonindex this morning. I felt like I have something from a portion of Scripture really interesting and convicting to share that I hadn't ever really read to deeply into before, and then I find that Dian and Marcos steal my thunder.... (haha, JUST KIDDING!).

I felt it necessary to produce my own thread, but it goes right along with holy living and even feeling alone in how the holy live. I'm sure most of you have read this Scripture, but man it did me a good heart check yesterday afternoon.

2 Timothy 3
Godlessness in the Last Days
1But mark this: [u]There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5[b]having a form of godliness but denying its power.[/b] Have nothing to do with them.[/u]
6[u]They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7[b]always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.[/b] 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, [b]so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.[/b][/u]
Paul's Charge to Timothy
10[u]You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, 11persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me[/u] in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra,[u] the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them.[/u] 12[u][b]In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,[/b] 13while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. [/u]

Man, these Passages tore me apart, yesterday, and it does again, today.

How many of us "christians" live like this?:

Quote:
"2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5[b]having a form of godliness but denying its power.[/b]



I know that there is some of me in this Passage, and it strikes conviction - an aching unfelt before.

Who among us are:
Quote:
[b]always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.[/b]



Now this is a deep question for your hearts consideration, because most "christians" THINK they acknowledge the truth, but what they don't realize is that if they acknowledged the truth, THEY WOULD ABSOLUTELY LIVE IT. We go to church every Sunday, and learn from truth (well, most of the time.... there are pastors who are wolves in Shepherd's clothing). But how many of us, even here on this forum, really only live the "godly" life on Sundays, and maybe one other day during the week at a prayer meeting to be an exposed extra really good christian? Do we live a second-by-second-minute-by-minute-day-by-day-365-days-a-year-for-the-rest-of-our-lives walk with God?

I found this portion of Scripture particularly interesting"
Quote:
[u][b]In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,[/b] 13while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. [/u]



Those of us who live a godly life WILL Be persecuted. How many of us can truly say that we are persecuted? It says that evil men and imposters (those who claim that they are "christian") will go from bad to worse. So, if there was harsh persecution back then, and it is supposed to get worse, why is there not much persecution today? (Now I know there is in some places of the world, but I am talking about America and the ever increasing American-ized parts of the world.)

So many preachers today preach health and wealth. God has for each one of us to be very wealthy and to never be sick, or fall under persecution. Why do these so-called pastors not understand that we ain't living in the Garden of Eden anymore? Paradise is gone, for now. We will regain this life of abundance and health when we enter through the gates of heaven, but only then (it seems) will it not matter to us, because none of those things will compare to the unsurpassing greatness, awe, and majesty of our LORD, Jesus Christ.

Now, I am not saying that Christians are supposed to be sick, and poor. God can certianly heal us, and, given the right attitude and heart, some of us can obtain wealth. However, I think that most of us are prideful, greedy, selfish, boastful, unforgiving, ungrateful, and disobedient lovers of money.

We don't need money to sustain us (whether in health or wealth). If we solely relied on God to sustain us, we would have all we would ever need.

I think 2 Timothy 3 describes, beautifully, the holy life.
:-D

{edited by me, and for me...lol}

 2007/8/8 7:36Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2664
Nottingham, England

 Re: Should Holiness Be A Fad Or a Way OF Life?

Good post and it gives much to think about.

The thing is, even with those who use this forum, we can regard truth as an enemy.

Sounds wrong of me to say that doesn't it?

Gal 4v16, 'Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?'.

Now I am going to tell some truths that will not be liked, but that is because they are true.

If it is only for strife, what is the point in saying it? There is enough strife and contention as it is without aggravating the situation.

But, here goes.

Christians should not be involved with drinking alcohol, smoking, taking drugs, pornography, fornication, sex and violence on television, entertainment and sports, etc.

The list goes on.

How are those things helpful to a life of holiness? How do they draw us closer to God?

Is God pleased with us when do partake of such things?

You list those things and all of a sudden words like, legalist, Pharisee, self-righteous will rear their heads.

Heb 12v14 ...and holiness without which no one will see the Lord'.

Either God is our Lord, or He is not.

Eternity is a long time. Let's spend it with God.

God bless.

 2007/8/8 8:17Profile
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re:

I added this to a blog I wrote this morning on this:

It breaks my heart to see so many "christian" imposters roaming this planet. It's like living Halloween every day of the year. So many "christians" put on the mask and the costume every day. I believe there are two reasons for this:

1. They don't want people to see who they really are underneath. They enjoy sinning. They enjoy doing the things of this world, and they don't want everyone else to know. Even though the One that really matters, does already know. God sees everything. They go to church every Sunday, and they know what is right and wrong, bu they think God's grace will cover their constant continual sin without and unrepentant heart.

or

2. They are just looking for a ticket into Heaven. They don't like the idea of hell, so they do a couple "good works" here and there to "satisfy" God. Nevermind going to church, praying, reading Scripture, or living a holy life. None of that matters, as long as they do a couple "good works" in their life, and wah-lah, God goes entirely against His own words in Scripture and accepts them into Heaven.

(By the way: For those of you who wear this halloween costume, God thinks it is an extremely ugly and horrific one. He would rather see you as He created you to be.)

Trust me, my friends, being an imposter is not a good thing, at all. Not only does God not accept the heathen (cold heart against Christ's saving grace), but he doesn't accept the half-hearted, lukewarm "christian," either. God makes it perfectly clear in Scripture.

Where are you at in your walk with Christ? Are you and imposter? Or, are you living the holy life?

 2007/8/8 8:38Profile
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re:

How I long to see revival transform this planet.

 2007/8/8 8:40Profile
BrokenOne
Member



Joined: 2007/6/7
Posts: 429
Baton Rouge, Louisiana

 Re: Is Holiness A Fad Or Should It Be A Way Of Life?

Quote:
In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted



This is something I was just discussing with a friend a couple of weeks ago. This verse really bothered me. The closest thing to persecution I have experienced recently is somebody looking at me weird when I told them I don’t watch TV and spend my free time in Bible reading and prayer.

I don’t go around trying to offend and inviting persecution on myself, but neither do I hide the fact that I am a committed follower of Jesus Christ. So if Jesus said the world was going to hate me because I belong to Him, why do they seem to like me so much???

Danielle


_________________
Danielle

 2007/8/8 20:19Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2664
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Danielle said, 'So if Jesus said the world was going to hate me because I belong to Him, why do they seem to like me so much???

Good question. Why is the world so comfortable around us? How is it they seem unconcerned whether or not we are Christians?

Maybe it is because all they ever hear is Jesus loves you. Hardly convicting is it?

In the book of Acts, the word love in not mentioned one time, yet thousands were getting saved.

Acts 24v25, 'Now as he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, "Go away for now, when I have a convenient time I will call for you."

Might not exactly be persecution, but Paul had been arrested and was still preaching the gospel to the point of being sent away.

Maybe we have experienced that, being sent away, I have, others have too.

However, persecution will arise when we live godly lives and refuse to compromise the gospel.

It is only a matter of time.

God bless.



 2007/8/9 5:40Profile
running2win
Member



Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA

 Re:

Quote:
So if Jesus said the world was going to hate me because I belong to Him, why do they seem to like me so much???


Ah, I love hearing about someone who starts to ponder these things because that's exactly how I came to the realization that I'm not what I ought to be as a christian.
I would submit to you that the reason is that we are not living Godly in Christ Jesus as defined by scripture. We- not we as in the church but we- each of us as individuals, need an outpouring of the Holy Ghost in our lives in order to live Godly in Christ Jesus and be an accurate example of what a christian is. Seek God for the answer and seek Him until He makes you all that you could be as a christian. For God's sake and His only.


_________________
Jeff Mollman

 2007/8/9 9:01Profile
BrokenOne
Member



Joined: 2007/6/7
Posts: 429
Baton Rouge, Louisiana

 Re:

Quote:
I would submit to you that the reason is that we are not living Godly in Christ Jesus as defined by scripture.



These are hard words to hear, but necessary. Maybe I have redefined godliness to make it something more comfortable for me – which would also make it acceptable to the world. Time to rediscover godliness as defined by the Word of God.

Quote:
Seek God for the answer and seek Him until He makes you all that you could be as a christian.



Brother, I have taken your counsel to heart. This is just what I needed. God bless you.

Danielle


_________________
Danielle

 2007/8/9 9:37Profile
openairboy
Member



Joined: 2003/9/22
Posts: 85


 Re:

Enid says,

Quote:
Christians should not be involved with drinking alcohol, smoking, taking drugs, pornography, fornication, sex and violence on television, entertainment and sports, etc.

How are those things helpful to a life of holiness? How do they draw us closer to God?



This is where a basic definition of holiness comes in and why there are differences. Is holiness really about food & drink? I don't know of a single Christian that would argue for porn, fornication, taking drugs, illicit sex, etc., although some of the others that you mention, even smoking, which I hate, are simply cultural and have nothing to do with Scriptural holiness. Not drinking alcohol does not make you holy. In fact, wine and drink are from the Lord and should be rec'd with gladness. On your grounds, Jesus is unholy. After all, he brought the best wine in at the last and I look forward to eating the fruit of the vine with him in glory. Also related are views of creation and recreation. I see no reason to believe I won't be playing sports with my resurrected body and they do make me closer to the Lord, because it is part of being human. Holiness isn't just about being shut away in a closet praying, although that is part of the Christian life, but it includes serving the poor, eating & drink with eyes lifted to heaven, realizing all good things come from the hand of the Lord.

Quote:
Is God pleased with us when do partake of such things?



Those that aren't actually sins, yes.

Quote:
You list those things and all of a sudden words like, legalist, Pharisee, self-righteous will rear their heads.



And with some of them, rightfully so. The Pharisees defined holiness their own way, rather than via Scripture, so they put a fence around the law, which actually prevented them from keeping the law. This is what saying "don't drink", "don't smoke" is doing. You have defined holiness unbiblically, then seek to set fences to prevent from being 'unholy'. This is legalism and Pharisaism, etc.

I can enjoy God when i am running, fishing, having sex, producing babies, cutting wood, playing guitar, drinking wine, watching the opera, etc.

 2007/8/9 11:46Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2664
Nottingham, England

 Re:

openairboy,

That is exactly what I am talking about.

Hence no revival.

God bless.

 2007/8/9 11:51Profile





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