Is the Prophetic Movement Revival in our day??!

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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Is the Prophetic Movement Revival in our day??!

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jdickson
Member

Joined: 2007/8/14
Posts: 11
Waterville, ME

Re:

im confused....
you guys are tossing false prophet left and right here, yet not one person has really explained himself......?!

someone please tell me why these men are false prophets!
For those who say the "word of God is better"

theres too words the living word, and the written word, both hasve to be used and discerned. If your just stuck in the bible, then your creating an idol out of it, and your not opening your heart for what God wants to bring for you today.

The prophets of the bible prophesied things that have yet to come to past.....
are they false prophets?

Are the sick being healed? yes.
Are lives being saved? yes
Are people praying because of these men? yes

whos being led astray? those listening to what these men have to say? or those who refuse to believe God is using these people today?

some please just tell me why they are false prophets? someone please tell me why these men are so despised by man on this forum?
-utterly confused

2007/8/15 14:02

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jdickson
Member

Joined: 2007/8/14
Posts: 11
Waterville, ME

Re:

one other quick thing....

concerning my last post, I dont want it to seem that im lessening the value of the word of God. I love it. Ive committed my life to knowing it, its my passion.

but I also know that the word of God is limitted without the Living word of God. the prophetic stirring and utterance.

also please lets be a little more real why these guys are false prophets.

I people are ussing some pretty broad excuses, that can be used against anyone you decide not to like.

concerning spiritual fruit:
"a lying sign and wonder" ???
its fruit! are they doing it in the name of belzebub? or Jesus? its FRUIT!

concerning the coming to past of prophecies:
how many hundreds of years was it before Jesus comes to fulfill the prophecies? some one please go do the math..
isnt it a little early to be throwing out the "it hasnt come to past card?"

2007/8/15 14:22

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KingJimmy
Member

Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4195
Huntersville, NC

Re:

Quote:

also please lets be a little more real why these guys are false prophets.

They are false prophets, because even according to their teachings, they "miss it" from time to time. That is, they predict things to come to pass, and the thing does not. In fact, something else often happens.

Quote:

concerning the coming to past of prophecies:
how many hundreds of years was it before Jesus comes to fulfill the prophecies? some one please go do the math..
isnt it a little early to be throwing out the "it hasnt come to past card?"

"Hasn't come to pass.... YET" is different than "Didn't come to pass.... PERIOD" To compare the misses of modern day prophets to the "not yet" of Biblical prophets causes me to fear for you. The things I'm talking about are things that were declared would come to pass within such and such time, and when the time came for them to come to pass, did not come to pass. Such is a false prophecy, as Deuteronomy 18 makes clear.

I speak this as one who firmly believes in modern day prophets and the need for prophecy today. But I believe many of the big name guys associated with the prophetic movement, if not all of them, are through and through false. And those who are following them, I fear, are in grave danger of great deception.

_________________
http://www.iamadisciple.com - I Am A Disciple

2007/8/15 14:30

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KingJimmy
Member

Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4195
Huntersville, NC

Re:

Quote:

Are the sick being healed? yes.
Are lives being saved? yes
Are people praying because of these men? yes

And if they utter false prophecies, does that make them a false prophet? Yes.

_________________
http://www.iamadisciple.com - I Am A Disciple

2007/8/15 14:33

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ChrisJD
Member

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2899
Philadelphia PA

Re: a vision of whose heart?

Hi everyone.

It is a [b]tremendous[/b] thing to stand before thousands of people(or anyone for that matter) and claim that you are speaking for and on behalf of the Almighty God.

It is a tremendous thing to speak words for the Supreme Being.

The prophet Jeremiah said,

"Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness."

[i]...because of the words of his holiness[/i]

"I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err. I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah."

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD."

[i]...they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD[/i]

"They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you."

[i]They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace...[/i]

[i]...and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.[/i]

"For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?"

"I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings."

"Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour."

"Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD."

Those are some of the things that the prophet Jeremiah said.

What a tremendous thing to claim you speak for God.

Fasting means nothing.

Praying means nothing.

All our devotion and zeal and furvor means nothing.

All that matters if you claim to be speaking for God is whether or not it is true. That is, is it true, that God Almighty is speaking through you.

The Lord Jesus, the greatest of all prophets said

[b][color=660033]I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.[/color][/b]

And the wisest out of men said

[i]In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin[/i]

Chris

_________________
The life of man is warfare upon the Earth.

Love never fails.

2007/8/15 14:41

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JelloTaster
Member

Joined: 2006/11/6
Posts: 44
Winnipeg MB

Re:

A couple things about fruit. The "fruit of a plant is sometimes not seen until harvest (like a carrot for example). Sometimes the fruit that a tree bears is pretty to look at but not worth a whole lot (like a lilac bush).

Secondly, notice what happened to Moses when he disobeyed God concerning the rock.

Num 20:11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.
Num 20:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

His disobedience produced good fruit. It also kept him out of the promised land.

That's not to say these are not men of God. I do not know them personally and it's not my job to pronounce judgement on them. I just think we need to be a tad more discerning when it comes to people like this. Chris

2007/8/15 18:30

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jdickson
Member

Joined: 2007/8/14
Posts: 11
Waterville, ME

Re:

concerning the "false prophets" "they missed it....."

have you ever concidered the fact that just because someone may prophecy something doesnt neccessarily mean its going to happen, but means that as the body of christ we have a responsibility to respond to the prophetic word. And the outcome relies on the response of the body?

When a prophet prophecies "revival!" but the people just sit around waiting for it, do you think its going to just happen, or the people have a responsibility to respond?

False prophet? or irresponsive body?

Its amazing how we can play "armchair" quarterback and throw accusations against men of God pressing in (imperfectly....sure!) for the kingdom of God, while we sit down at our computers and say "strike one! they missed it" another false prophet right?

Believe me, Im my own person, I dont chase everyone that calls himself a prophet, i dont chase the hype, but I do know when someone is bearing fruit i their ministry and they are.

Why dont you get your hands on some teachings and just listen and discern for yourself.

one other thing. Please tell me who has confessed themselves as a prophet? I can't say any of these men (except kim clement) throw the word "prophet" around flippently, unlike many throw "false prophet" around.

2007/8/15 18:48

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Lotis
Member

Joined: 2006/9/26
Posts: 83

Re:

Im with Jdickson here, fruit is fruit. I understand there will be many who perform false signs and wonders etc, but that doesn't mean all sings and wonders are false. Honestly, none of these men that I am aware of have claimed to be in the office of an OLD TESTAMENT prophet. But perhaps they have a prophetic gift. There is a difference between holding the office of prophet and bearing a prophetic gift. If you're going to say these men are false prophets because perhaps they misused their giftings and made a mistake, then I'm going to have to say any time you're a false-teacher-preacher-giver-encourager-etc all the times you've missused your giftings. If you have the gift of generosity and fail to give generously because of pride etc. are you any less guilty than them? Or an encourager who fails to use his gift and someone goes on discouraged, are they any less guilty? These men have giftings, which ever one of us has never made a mistake with our giftings should be the first to cast a stone at them. I don't mean this in a mean way, but the same spirit that works in you works in me, and works in them. They aren't against Christ, who they must be for him. If you can stand up and tell me you've never made a mistake in your gift of discernment or what ever else, then I will listen to your rebukes of these men. Then I'll probably realize you're Jesus and hug you and worship you. All jokes aside, I once again say, these men are changing the world for the better, what are we doing to further the kingdom?

2007/8/15 20:10

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KingJimmy
Member

Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4195
Huntersville, NC

Re:

Quote:

have you ever concidered the fact that just because someone may prophecy something doesnt neccessarily mean its going to happen, but means that as the body of christ we have a responsibility to respond to the prophetic word. And the outcome relies on the response of the body?

Indeed, and the Scriptures teach things about conditional words of prophecy given to people groups:

Jeremiah 18:7 At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; 8 if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. 9 Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; 10 if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it.

And such can be clearly demonstrated in the prophetic ministry of Jonah, who prophesied that Nineveh would fall in 40 days, but it did not, because the people had repented. So, indeed, there are conditional words of prophecy, even when, like in Jonah's case, such is not stated in the prophecy itself (as Jonah gave no message of hope, simply judgment).

However, such conditional words only give the impression of a "missed word." When in actuality, the word was not missed. It was given as the Lord gave it. And since all words given are given in light of the whole counsel of God's word, then they will act accordingly.

However, this is not the nature of all words claimed to be "missed" in the prophetic movement. And the proof is in the small fortune many of these prophetic ministers are making in tapes, books, schools, and conferences, teaching people "how-to" more "accurately" prophesy, so as not to miss. In fact, a lot of prophecy given that doesn't come to pass isn't blamed on the conditional nature of prophecy. Rather, it is said the prophet is immature in his gifting, and needs to "grow" in it. Thus, one can buy a tape, read a book, attend a school, or go to a weekend conference so as to learn how to improve their own accuracy and sharpen their prophetic gifting.

For, as it is commonly taught in the prophetic movement circles, often a persons accuracy is off because of such things as the flesh getting in the way of their receiving or giving a word. Thus, they don't quite hear God accurately, or are unable to give a word exactly as God gave it to them. Then there are things such as the principalities and powers that act as a sort of interference to keep a person from accurately receiving a word from God, and likewise, speaking it.

But, come to the conference, and you can hear more seasoned prophets tell you how to overcome such things, and be more like them!!!! This is, in fact, the reason so many prophetic words are deemed to be "missed." Not because of conditional words of prophecy. These "prophets" will often describe how they grew in their gifting so as to be more accurate, and how they "practiced" their gift so as to sharpen it and press on to maturity. They will tell stories of how they missed it often because of their immaturity, and, because they are "only human" from time to time, continue to "miss" words even today. But at least they are trying!!!!

And what I say about these things, some of you might be shocked at. But these are far from exaggerations. Sadly, these are how things actually are taught. And sadly, a generation of false prophets is raising up another generation of false prophets. And even more sad than this, is the wide reception such individuals have within the church. The Lord will require much from the church for this sin. Indeed, much has been required already.

Quote:

Please tell me who has confessed themselves as a prophet? I can't say any of these men (except kim clement) throw the word "prophet" around flippently, unlike many throw "false prophet" around.

This is part of the game those in leadership within the prophetic movement play. In part, it's a false humility. But in greater measure, it's an attempt to be free from accountability should they "miss" a word. "After all, nobody here is claiming to be a prophet..." Yet they never fail to pat each other on the back and say what a great prophet so-and-so is, and they never fail to show up to prophetic conferences to teach on prophetic ministry.

I remember one night when I went to Morning Star's "School of the Spirit" on a Friday night here in Charlotte. After having what was a rather normal church service, the leader called at random a number of students from various tables to come up and share the words they had received from the Lord throughout the service, so as to give them a chance to spread their wings and practice their gifting. But as he called them up, he gave a disclaimer: "Now, nobody here is claiming to be a prophet or anything like that..." But then, when 7 or so students assembled on stage, they proceeded to call out (rather inaccurately at that) folks in the congregation to give them personal prophetic words. And afterwards, anybody that was a first time visitor, for free, could go to the prophecy booths to receive prophetic ministry. But, not from anybody claiming to be a prophet!!!

There is a genuine prophetic move of the Spirit I believe today. However, it is not to be found in the shallow and much celebrated "prophetic movement." That movement is simply a shallow, demonic, counterfeit. There are real displays of power no doubt. But a power that is not of God.

_________________
http://www.iamadisciple.com - I Am A Disciple

2007/8/15 20:10

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jdickson
Member

Joined: 2007/8/14
Posts: 11
Waterville, ME

Re:

wow buddy sounds like you've been to a conference or two!
I too absolutely hate the marketing of of schools, conferences, etc. it grinds my gears. for sure.

but bro im not gonna go point my finger and call them false prophets. im sure as heck not gonna call them demonic!
I mean if these guys are demonic for their marketing the ministry, then Joel osteen is the devil himself.

did you know that demons wont praise Jesus, and confess is his Lordship and preach the gospel to the lost, now i understand we disagree but c'mon now....demonic?

I mean even Paul said there were people prancing around calling themselves apostles, but they are still preaching the gospel and getting people saved, so let em keep on!

and thankyou Lotis for pointing out the difference between the office of the prophet, and the prophetic gifting, that we all can tap into to discern the heart of the Lord concerning all things and people to share his love.

oh and I just got a phone call from a very close trusted friend who has been serving under Bill Johnson the past year, last night he was ministering at a conference and while he was describing God's heart to heal the sick, a cloud of rain formed over him and it rained for 3 hours in a 6 ft diameter span, many people walked through the rain and many were miraculously healed by Jesus without anyone touching them. sounds kinda like the pillar that formed next to william Branham. Man God is moving today even greater than he did in the old testament, greater than he did in the life of Jesus and the apostles and all this to reveal His son Christ Jesus as the messiah. isnt that exciting?!

2007/8/15 20:26

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