SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Gentile Tribulation Question

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re: Gentile Tribulation Question



Brother Eli,

I think you know I love you very much. Please bear this in mind all the while that I disagree with your analysis here.

In fact, I didn't find this post till after I'd ansswered the next one. I don't think it makes any difference that I've posted them in the right order, but this one is short because I'd said much in the next... Clear... ? Great... :-)

Eli said, Dear Linn

Quote:
This Scripture from Ezekiel is a millennial promise, which will be fulfilled when Jesus returns to turn again the backslidden Jewish nation. The Church today only has a foretaste of the fulfillment of this prophesy. It also said elsewhere that no one will need to say "Know the Lord" because everyone will know Him. This has not been fulfilled yet, but will be fulfilled once Israel as a nation is redeemed and the knowledge of God fills the whole earth.

Again, I believe that promise in Ezekiel is of the New Covenant, (see Hebrews) which has been fully operational to those who receive Him, since Jesus Christ fulfilled His work on the cross, in the grave, and in returning to heaven, sending us the Holy Spirit.

Quote:
I don't see faith as a condition

Well, God certainly does. This could lead to another discussion about how to define faith, but in general, I take it to be that we believe God when He speaks to us. Jesus was regularly irritated by Israel's lack of faith, and because of it, could not do certain things for them.

I didn't intend any concept of 'earning' in my use of the word faith, as I don't consider myself to have faith of my own making. God creates faith in me by speaking to me. God was creating faith in Israel when He spoke to them. They did believe - enough to ask Him to stop speaking to them. Which He graciously granted.

But, this was not a good start to their relationship with the God who had brought them to [i]Himself[/i], and their possible reception of a land of their own (separate from Egypt). And we know what happened after that...

Quote:
remember that God's covenant is with the nation of Israel,

The Old Covenant was. The New Covenant is between the Father and the Son. This is what makes it imperative for Jew and gentile alike to be joined to the Son, and become sons of the Father. This is how believers become partakers of the divine nature according to the exceedingly great and precious promises made by [i]Jesus[/i], (many... much recorded in John's gospel), which Peter calls a [i][u]more sure[/u] word of prophecy[/i].

To link the fulfilment of the New Covenant to the fortunes of physical Israel apart from faith in Christ, is far off what I find in the Book.

 2007/8/9 22:08









 Re: Gentile Tribulation Question


Eli wrote

Quote:
The truth is there is BOTH a grafting in of the Gentiles into the root of Abraham.

I don't agree that the root is Abraham.

This was something the Jews used to justify their sin to themselves - not that Abraham was not justified by faith. But, in Romans, Paul is careful to point out that the promises were through Isaac, the child of promise, and through Jacob [i]before[/i] he had been born. We can't ignore this.

Nor can we ignore the references to the Root and Branch relating Jesus to the house of David, of Judah. Nor how Moses was a Levite, whose brother Aaron became a priest under a new code of religious ritual instituted by God in the desert.

So, when Jesus became our great High Priest in the principle footsteps all Israel could recognise, nevertheless, He was of Judah technically, yet again God showing us how He reserves the right to move the goalposts according to a pattern of thinking higher than ours. In other words, it's not that simple.

Abraham was the father of faith, because he believed while he was still a gentile. The seal of his faith with God, was circumcision, but only those who had both the heart of faith [i]and[/i] the circumcision to prove it, are counted worthy to receive the rewards. (Rom 2:29) By this stage we see that worthiness is not to do with law-keeping, but with faith in Jesus Christ.

Quote:
which makes the Church both Jew and Gentile without distinction, and there is also Israel as a physical nation to whom God still has a covenant with that He intends to keeps.

Now, this is the everlasting covenant He made with them, which was fulfilled by Jesus.

Quote:
I believe the confusion comes when we think that all Israel was cast off. The Bible doesn't say this, it rather says that SOME OF THE BRANCHES were cast off. Paul was living proof that God had not finished with His people, physical Israel. Some of them had rejected Jesus (most of them) but not all of them, and in doing so this enabled the Gentiles to be grafted into the commonwealth of Israel.

I'm going to be very pernickerty in my comment here, because I think we need to be constantly checking that what we thought the scripture said, is what it still says and means. I understand how you came to make this statement, but, it is not quite what Ephesians 2 says:

[color=0033CC]12 That [u]at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel[/u], and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:[/color]

OK. So, 'at that time' refers to the time [b][i]before[/i][/b] [u]the commonwealth of Israel[/u] coming to be defined as those [u]of Israel[/u] [b]who know Christ[/b]. And no gentiles had yet been admitted [i]directly[/i] into Christ [u]by faith[/u].


So far so good?

Please tell me if not....


[If there were any gentiles by birth who had converted to Judaism, they had always been counted as 'Israel' for the purposes of their salvation [u]under the law[/u].]

[color=0033CC]13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are [u]made nigh by the blood of Christ[/u].[/color]

Note again that nighness to God is defined in terms of 'the blood of Christ'.

[color=0033CC]14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [i]between us[/i]; [/color]

Quote:
God's covenant still remains with physical Israel,

As we have seen from Ephesians, [u]only[/u] through 'the blood of Christ'.

As we see from Hebrews, the Old Covenant was put to bed by Jesus Christ, whose is the blood of the New Covenant, under which all believers are granted to 'know the Lord' and have the laws of God written in their hearts and minds.

[It should not be possible to read Hebrews with understanding, and miss this. The 'sin' in Heb 12:2, is the sin of unbelief, relating back to chs 3 and 4.]

This is also clear from Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, who are chided for their carnality, despite being abundantly gifted through their baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Quote:
when those who have been cut off will once again be grafted BACK INTO the same root from which they were cut

Again, no. They must be grafted into the death of Christ, to qualify for being grafted into the olive tree.

I cannot believe the olive tree is the Jewish nation for many reasons - some above. The root of the olive tree is Christ (who was Jewish by His first birth in the flesh AND Jewish by circumcision of His heart in the Spirit), and so [i]of course[/i] [u]He[/u] is their 'natural' olive tree. But, He took Jewish flesh to the cross with gentile flesh equally, and [u]all[/u] must now be born again to be part of that olive.

Branches which were cut off and died before they believed will be gathered into the fire to be burned. Sadly. Every rising generation of young Jews can claim potential right to be grafted into the olive tree; since all are born in unbelief (Jews and gentiles alike), and all must come through the same Saviour. The only (or main) advantage to a Jew nowadays, may be to have been nurtured in a knowledge of the word of God.

But even then, (as for Christians), this written word is often presented inadequately and not according to revelation by the Holy Spirit.

Quote:
and to which the Gentiles are enjoying: the Church. In the end, all Israel will be saved, and the Church will be complete, one new man in Christ Jesus.

'all Israel' can refer only to those who have found faith in Christ. As long as that's what you mean and not that every Jew [u]will believe[/u], I'm with you on this last point. 8-)

 2007/8/9 22:11
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

Eli wrote:

Quote:
You've forgotten that God made two covenants with Abraham... actually, one when he was yet Abram, and the other when he was Abraham.



Any and all promises/covenants made to Abram/Abraham were made to him and to His Seed. Not Seeds, but Seed which is Christ. (Gal 3:15-16)

Also, the land was just a foretaste of a better land. The area of Palestine is not the fulfillment of the promise, but a temporary stay. Look at Hebrews 11
13These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

 2007/8/9 23:57Profile
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

I realize I need to be more clear. My apologies.

Linn, let's just look at Ezekiel 11 again in context:

[i]"Eze 11:17 So tell them, 'This is what the Almighty LORD says: [u]I will bring them together from the nations and gather them from the countries where I've scattered them. I will give them the land of Israel.[/u]
Eze 11:18 They will come and remove all the disgusting and detestable things that are there.
Eze 11:19 I will give them a single purpose and put a new spirit in them. I will remove their stubborn hearts and give them obedient hearts.
Eze 11:20 Then they will live by my laws and obey my rules. They will be my people, and I will be their God."[/i]

Verse 17 reveals to us this whole passage is speaking about the final regathering of the scattered Jewish nation. This passage is also a parallel with Jeremiah 31:31-34 on the New Covenant. Yet the context in Jeremiah also has to do with the regathering and spiritual restoration of the entire nation.

It's here where I need to clarify myself though. Both of these passages are indeed speaking of the New Covenant which we are in fact currently partaking of, as Hebrews 8:8 certifies. However, if I may, what I am saying is is that we are right now not experiencing the fullness of this covenanted blessing, or else why would Jesus be required to return? There is still redemptive work to be done. I cannot agree that Ezekiel 11 has been fulfilled IN ITS FULLNESS because Israel as a nation is still apostate as they are the primary subject of the prophecy. As Paul tells us in Romans 11, when the nation is revived the world is revived; redeemed Israel shall usher in the millennial Kingdom. Only then will no man say "know the Lord" for everyone shall know the Lord. This simply has not yet been fulfilled.

God is not done with His people. [i]"Jacob is the lot of His inheritance."[/i] (Deuteronomy 32:9) It is important that we do not forget that the Gentiles have been grafted in so to [b]provoke Israel to jealousy.[/b] This is one of the great mysteries of the Bible. We Gentiles are currently experiencing the blessings of having the new heart of the New Covenant, but one day "all Israel" shall be grafted BACK in to experience Jehovah's salvation as well. Thus the prophecy is only partially fulfilled.

I apologize for my poor explanation of faith and conditions... What I really wanted to emphasize was that the New Covenant is something that God does entirely on His own so that no man can boast. [i]"I will... I will... I will..."[/i] is repeated by God several times because under the Old Covenant we simply could not. The Law was our schoolmaster to point us to Christ. Christ is the end of the Law for all who believe. Faith is a RELIEF from the Law, from works. Faith itself is not a "work". Faith is resting from dead works. It's no longer "Do this and you shall live", but believe I have done it ALL. My fault for explaining myself so poorly.

I love you too, sister. I'm just saying that to exclude the nation of Israel from the picture is to only see half the painting.

I'm going to continue answering your second post in my next response. God bless!
-Eli


_________________
Eli Brayley

 2007/8/10 1:22Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Butting in...

sis Dorcas
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

Indeed sis D, Israel is not being let off the hook as far as compliance to the statutes of God. At the same time however, that Israel transgresses (as do we in our own Covenant) gives God opportunity to show Mercy and extend Grace so this can be said: from Ezekiel 36:

[b]16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. 18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it: 19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. 20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.[/b][b]21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. [/b]

sis D, it's not about Israel complying so much in the final analysis, it's all about God and His Name's Sake. Sure there are consequences for transgressions but ultimately it all rests on God. We would do well to seek Him on the Gravity of that. Just like we transgress the statutes of this Covenant, we receive Mercy and Grace from on High for His own Name's Sake and not our own. Incidentally Ezekiel 36 is yet to be fulfilled and that was a promise made to Israel. i believe that it speaks of Israel coming to the realization of Jesus as Messiah which will usher in the Promises which God has made concerning being restored to the land given Abraham, the rebuilding of the Temple for it's role in the end times and so on. In that regard, Israel is not exempt from being Saved by Faith, that is the same Faith which Abraham had and so this is the Truth of there being no Jew or Gentile in Christ. Now there remains a distinction in as much as there are things which God will work out through Israel and through the Gentiles which can't be done by the other group just like there are things which God will do in your life and through your life which i can't do because i'm not you and vice versa. This is part of why Paul said that we ought not boast against the branches (and i fear that part of this whole discussion under the guise whether we know it or not of trying to be dead on with scipture could boil down to boasting against the natural branches.) because God is not yet done with Israel in terms of bringing the Elect from Israel to Salvation and fulfilling what He had Purposed to do through Israel in and through their coming to Salvation.

Quote:
I realise it's popular to determine some of these promises on the nation of Israel separately from faith and separately from the Church, but I don't see it. I see Israel as His intended bride, who unless she makes herself ready on His terms, will be rejected in the end.



indeed it is and i have heard that sort of thing from bro Hagee and some others and it's wrong. Israel and the promises made to her which remain unfulfilled await God working her over to bring her to Salvation. so it is not so much a matter of her preparing herself because she can't do it, it is God Himself who will make her ready.

Quote:
So, when in the OT there is a promise of calling the Israelites back to 'the land' there is a sense that either the land of Israel is going to be the 'whole earth', or, that people who come to faith - wherever they are in the world - and whether they are gentile or Jew\Israel - is where (geographically) they will inherit God.



Indeed there is a broader context to the calling back into the land beyond Israel being returned to the land, such is the Nature of Scripture. however let us not forget also that Israel also refers to Jewry specifically and that those promises God made stand for them because if they don't, then we have no promise to lay claim to. by Jewry i am talking about those Elected to Salvation.

Quote:
Note that God was under the impression He had brought Israel to Himself. He knew that Israel (Jacob) had so wanted His blessing, that he'd bartered it away from its original owner. Did Israel's descendants want God enough to receive the same gift out of God's bounty to Jacob?



i believe Jacob was the only owner of the blessing which was given him. Esau was rejected before the 2 of them could do anything so Esau gave away the blessing because God rejected him beforehand. i don't think Israel wanted God enough to receive what Jacob did...however perhaps we ought to consider how much God wanted to [i][b]give[/b][/i] Israel what He had given to Jacob?

Quote:
Now, that covenant they broke. Can we agree?



they did, but so do we. The question i am concerned about is now, ok so we have broken the covenant and failed at holding up our end of the bargain, will God fail at holding up His end? i suppose i place my hope that He will hold up His end and be for me all that is required to hold up my end of it...after all only He is Sufficient for such things because He is Sufficiency.

Grace and Peace is ours in Jesus.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/8/10 1:35Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Seed, Seeds...

bro Jay

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

Quote:
Any and all promises/covenants made to Abram/Abraham were made to him and to His Seed. Not Seeds, but Seed which is Christ.



yes indeed, but is Christ not the firstborn among many sons? are we not co-heirs then with Him sharing in these Promises? the way i see it is that Israel remains with a distinct destiny which can only be fulfilled upon coming to Salvation in Christ, in that regard there is yet a distinction, but there is none as it pertains to Salvation hence Paul says there is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ.

Quote:
Also, the land was just a foretaste of a better land. The area of Palestine is not the fulfillment of the promise, but a temporary stay.



yes the land of Palestine was a foretaste of what God had promised in a sense, at the same time too, that land was promised to Israel (which we are grafted into) so it is not excluded from the fulfilment of the promise but remains a part of it. The context of the scipture you quoted bro, i believe is far broader than we perceive at present.Yes indeed those spoken of in Hebrews awaited what God had prepared for them and the land was not the total fulfilment of that promise but it was a part of it, they wanted the whole shabang which is the Heavenly City and the land on earth also because from Ezekiel 36 on we see a placing back of Israel into the land and David ruling over them, that is Jesus Christ. So the Heavenly country is not just Heaven as in Heaven up there but heaven on earth, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven? something to consider perhaps?

of late our Lord has had me on this thing about the Manifold Nature of Scripture. Scripture is an interesting thing. it's context is not only immediate or pertaining to that instant but is Eternal because God is Eternal, this is why it never gets old and lessons from ages past remain ever-relevant. The more i am quickened to this, the more i can see the many facets of Truth which God has shown to you all and can put them together kinda like a big jigsaw puzzle to have a fuller view of what the word of God is saying. i pray that makes sense brethren, these last few wks have been jaw-dropping for me in the Lord because of this. i see scipture in a different light...or lights as it were. Man to see the word from the Perspective of the Father through His Holy Spirit is a whole different trip and it is only by His Grace and Mercy in spite of my constant bungling that i have found this spring...drinking deeply...

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/8/10 1:55Profile
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

Quote:
I don't agree that the root is Abraham.



This also needs clarification. When I said the root was Abraham, I was referring to Galatians 3:6-9,

[i]"Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. [b]Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham[/b]. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. [b]So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham[/b]."[/i]

I remember having a discussion about this very topic on Sermonindex about a year ago. The issue I am contending is that the root spoken of in Romans 11 is the Abrahamic promise, the blessing through Abraham, which is Christ. I think we would agree it is Christ, but I'm only saying that the promise of Jesus Christ is that of the Abraham Covenant, and thus that is what the root is. Therefore all those of faith are the children of Abraham, those who believe in Messiah. I'm pretty sure we agree on this point, it was a misunderstanding of wording... correct?

Romans 11:17 states that SOME of the branches were broken off. Verse 25 says that blindness IN PART has happened to Israel. Back in verse 11 Paul makes it clear that they did not stumble that they should fall. Israel stumbled, but they were not ground to powder (see Matthew 21:44). God is not through with the Jewish people, though some of them have stumbled at Christ. The promises still remain toward them that they shall once again be grafted in (as a nation). Currently the Church, the Abrahamic root, is full of wild Gentile branches, but Israel, the natural branches, shall in the future be brought into this glorious salvation originally promised to them. Then, when we are in Christ, we are one new man, neither Jew nor Gentile.

I won't get into Ephesians 2 right now, but I see that Ephesians 2 strongly reaffirms what I have been saying. Verse 12 is speaking to the Gentiles who were once alienated from the promises OF ISRAEL. If you flip the verse upside-down it basically states that Israel indeed had Christ (as an anticipatory foreshadow), had the covenants of promise, had hope, and had God in this world (see also Romans 9:4-5). From this some of them have been temporarily cast out and the Gentiles have been brought in to benefit from the root, but as the Scripture says they shall be grafted in again. The entire second chapter of Ephesians is a wonderful description of the Church, both Jew and Gentile, who make up the household of faith, the habitation of God.

How shall the nation be saved? The same way we have been saved: through the blood of Jesus Christ alone. When shall this be fulfilled? When they shall look upon Him whom they have pierced and mourn for Him as one mourns for an only son on that great and final day of the Lord.


_________________
Eli Brayley

 2007/8/10 2:03Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: Gentile Tribulation Question



Hebrews 8
9. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11. And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

What are the Biblical Lawyers arguing? That the Jews kept the covenant and should be restored to their land for the fourth time? Should God take the priesthood from His Son and give it to them?

No thanks. We believe the witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:


Christians are the celestial children of Abraham that The Seed blessed and the only Covenant in force to day was written in the blood of the Son of God. We admit that we have no homeland and are seeking a city.

Those seeking to hold the children in bondage today need to enforce the covenants of works and sacrifice They would have you return to a covenant of sacrifice, ministered by themselves to keep the meek and humble in bondage to mens traditions in Col. 2:8, tradition refers to the arbitrary interpretations of the Jews but it applies today as well..

8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14. Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15. And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19. And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21. (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22. Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23. Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.


Eddie


_________________
Eddie

 2007/8/10 7:08Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re: Seed, Seeds...

Ironman,

Quote:
yes indeed, but is Christ not the firstborn among many sons? are we not co-heirs then with Him sharing in these Promises? the way i see it is that Israel remains with a distinct destiny which can only be fulfilled upon coming to Salvation in Christ, in that regard there is yet a distinction, but there is none as it pertains to Salvation hence Paul says there is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ.



Christ is the firstborn among many brethren and we are co-heirs sharing in these promises. But the promises were made to Christ. We just share in the promises. Unbelieving Israel does not have a distinct destiny now that the New Covenant is here. In the OT times there were Gentiles and Jews, now there are unbelievers and believers.

Quote:
yes the land of Palestine was a foretaste of what God had promised in a sense, at the same time too, that land was promised to Israel (which we are grafted into) so it is not excluded from the fulfilment of the promise but remains a part of it. The context of the scipture you quoted bro, i believe is far broader than we perceive at present.Yes indeed those spoken of in Hebrews awaited what God had prepared for them and the land was not the total fulfilment of that promise but it was a part of it, they wanted the whole shabang which is the Heavenly City and the land on earth also because from Ezekiel 36 on we see a placing back of Israel into the land and David ruling over them, that is Jesus Christ. So the Heavenly country is not just Heaven as in Heaven up there but heaven on earth, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven? something to consider perhaps?



Let's consider two places for a moment. First the land of Palestine. Second a new heaven and a new earth. How many people do you know that would prefer Palestine? Palestine--while a literal place--is used as a symbol and a type of a better land that is promised to Abraham and his Seed--which is Christ and all who are in Christ.

 2007/8/10 9:21Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Reply To Bro Ironman 2 ...



Thanks Doc ...

i believe i've got the gist of this now ... our convo last nite was of the greatest help ... Thank You Lord Jesus! ...
:-D

 2007/8/10 10:39Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy