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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Holiness Possible Today?

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 Re:

Sinless perfection is when a person chooses to love God and love neighbor, since love fulfills the law. The man who loves does not break the law, (does not sin) because love fulfills the whole of the law.

But because of freewill, men can always choose to be selfish instead of loving.

So we will never ever get to a place where sin is impossible, because we will always have a freewill. But we are in a place where it's possible not to sin, because we have a freewill.

"You'll never get to the place where it is impossible for you to sin. But praise be unto God that you are in a position where it is possible for you not to sin." Duncan Campbell (Leonard Ravenhill said the same thing, but I'm sure he got it from Duncan)

 2007/8/8 16:03









 Re:

Well, all I can say is... thank the Lord for His wonderful grace and mercy.

Krispy

 2007/8/8 16:16









 Re:

Amen! Me too! We would all be condemned if it were not for God's grace, if it were not for the cross!

Christ has made it possible for God to give grace to every repentant sinner; Christ made it possible for God to forgive every sin that we turn away from.

(There is nothing but God's wrath for sins that we choose not to turn away from. But God has nothing but grace for the sins that we do turn away from)

 2007/8/8 16:37
John173
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 289
Omaha

 Re:

Someone in this long thread asked, if we cannot stop sinning, then which one...etc. This makes me think that we misunderstand what sin is. Certainly there are specific actions that we can point to and name it as sin, lying for example. But sin is a much deeper issue than that. Does the scripture not say that [i]everything[/i] that is not of faith is sin? For those of you who claim you no longer sin, do you really claim to be living in absolute 100% perfect faith 24/7? If you say yes, you've just committed sin by lying. The very notion of us existing in the here and now as perfect little saints offends me to the extreme. Phl 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ. The tense here is one of an ongoing process which isn't finished until that final day. Egads, this stuff makes me groan as much as the lukewarm church does.

Perfect[i]ing[/i] holiness in the fear of God,

Doug


_________________
Doug Fussell

 2007/8/8 16:46Profile









 Re:

1. Does God require from us the impossible?

2. Does God send multitudes of men to hell for failure to perform the impossible?

3. Is not, then is all sin avoidable?

4. Is God not seeking the condemnation of multitudes if He commands of them the impossible, and punishes them for failure to do the impossible? Does He not seek their condemnation if He commands the impossible?

 2007/8/8 16:48
John173
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 289
Omaha

 Re:

Are you saying that if I don't live a perfectly sinless life from now on I will be sent to hell?

Is this not another gospel?


_________________
Doug Fussell

 2007/8/8 16:54Profile









 Re:

Are you saying that God forgives unrepentant sin?

Is this not another gospel?

Did not John Baptist, Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, all preach repentance "for the remission [forgiveness] of sins"??

 2007/8/8 17:00
John173
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 289
Omaha

 Re:

What I am saying is that we sin in ways that we aren't even aware of. To be 100% sinless would mean that every single thought, attitude and action in my life is completely and totally motivated by nothing less than the purest agape love of God. Can you claim to be doing this 24/7? I can't. How anyone can fail to see this is beyond my comprehension.

You are preaching a works gospel here. I agree that in the major outward categories of sin, it is possible to live free and not commit them. But you seem to be preaching the notion of perfection. If we are already perfect, then what is there to work out regarding our salvation?

This is my last comment on this thread. I don't agree with you. End of discussion.


_________________
Doug Fussell

 2007/8/8 17:12Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

I see this thread is getting a little heated. I'm nearly reluctant to mention anything else... but I wanted to point this out.

Quote:
Does the scripture not say that everything that is not of faith is sin?



The scripture you are referencing is in the context of doing things that are against your conscience ie eating meat offered to idols. I believe that verse is plainly talking about doing things that you are not sure are pleasing to God. If we do something that we are doubtful that is acceptable in the sight of God, we receive judgment. What we do we must have faith that it isn't in rebellion to God.

The only reason I mention this is because I've seen some feel in such bondage because they didn't think they were doing something "in faith." This could have been something like tying their shoe. The felt condemned because in their mind they said, "Was I tying my shoe in faith or my own power?" I know it sounds silly, but people have felt condemned over it.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ, is acceptable to God, and approved by men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things with which one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For the sake of food, destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offense.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing by which thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/8/8 17:28Profile
John173
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 289
Omaha

 Re:

Good point Preach, admonishment accepted. It doesn't alter my position though, too many other scriptures express an ongoing process of sanctification.

As to the heated nature, I agree, which is why I wanted to back away from continued debate.

Bless you brother,

Doug


_________________
Doug Fussell

 2007/8/8 17:51Profile





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