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 Re:

reformer- you misinterpreted my post completely. I never brought into question your love for Christ, as you did to me. Perhaps it is better to be done with this thread, though I wont let your unbibilcal views go unchallenged.

You have provided no scriptural evidence for your views regaurding home fellowship. Again, I do not condemn those who meet in buildings, as is often practical, but by in large it is apostate.

Quote:
maybe I should start a ministry or start a bible study within the "whore", as many of you call it



Paul said to come out of her, not reform her (2 Corinthians 6)

Quote:
...start a fellowhip in my house. Thats isolation and rebellious.



You are the only one making blanket statements in this post (and unbiblical ones at that). Scripture, along with Church and Revival history stand against you...

Good day sir - Jim

 2007/8/2 15:29
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

brothers, come on guys, we don't need the moderators all the time to lock up threads. we can and should moderate this ourselves with humility and God's grace. let's talk, but not get mad over personal preferences. these things mean nothing in light of Christ. as far as i see, if you meet in a building, home or the street, your salvation does not depend on it. it is not a "major" doctrinal issue that we need to seperate over. this reminds me of 1 corinthians. "i meet in a home", "i meet in a building", "well i meet in the street". brothers, this is not something to get upset and mad over.

it might be a good idea to in humility understand that God has given us each personal preferences and to deal with each other in grace and love.

 2007/8/2 16:00Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings Brothers and sisters

I read this from a teaching and thought I would share it here, it reflects my heart on this subject.

I don't believe where you meet to be so very important, but rather “who” you are fellowshipping with is what is vital. The Bible defines Christians (which by the way are the church) as ones who have forsaken all in order to be His disciple. They’ve lost their lives in order to find it. They’ve turned from sin and therefore can come to be called new creations because the old has been given away. They’ve died to sin and then buried it under the water. It does not matter that you don't meet in a certain building on a appointed date on the calender, Christ calls us to live our life in submission to His good and perfect will daily with one another.

God Bless You
MaryJane

 2007/8/2 17:17Profile









 Re:

If you want to get the thread locked just somehow through the scriptures shed some light on a man that holds public office that stands against abortion, homosexual marriage, and how he professes that Jesus Christ has changed his life more than anyone or on give some scriptures about a women's authority role in the church. Regardless of who introduces the post, it very likely might get locked on your rebuttal, rather than the initial post. It might not get locked when it is posted as "do you believe him" but only after the scripture had been given to shed light on the subject.
2 Tim 4:3
3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Hang in there reformer. Just forgive and speak the truth. We are not responsible if it falls on deaf ears.
Ezek 33:8-9
8 When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you will surely die,' and you do not speak out to dissuade him from his ways, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 9 But if you do warn the wicked man to turn from his ways and he does not do so, he will die for his sin, but you will have saved yourself.

Heb 10:30-34
30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34 You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions.














 2007/8/2 17:33
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Jimmie you don't remember saying this: "If you don’t do the above you don’t love as Christ commands"

Paul said to come out of her, not reform her (2 Corinthians 6)

We as believers should not be yoked with un-believers that knowingly admitted as members, worship of pagan idols and so for. Who am I to tell if someone is saved or not? Isn't that up to the Holy Spirit? By your scripture the reason to come out of a church is because they are lost and practice idoltry.The lived like the world openly fornicated, were unholy, practiced sensastionalism. He wasn't saying come out of assembly of believers,but un-believers but come out of idolatrous, demonic, false religions.I think you are twisting that scripture, to meet your need.

No one yet has mentioned anything about tithing or giving? If a few meet in a house, where do the offerings go? Are we not to support those that labor for the truth. Which is a command.


Good luck to you,
Regard
Mike


 2007/8/2 17:59Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Appreciate that moe_mac, not trying to start trouble, I am strongly passionate about it and it is all one sided, because people listen to sermons and then take what they say as doctrine and get fired up, without allowing the Holy SPirit to teach them. just because Wilkerson, Tozer, Ravenhill and so forth, taught lessons on certain subjects doesn't mean

I already got a post locked when I wanted to discuss christians in public office. how do they stand for Jesus Christ. It has become such a main topic of the political debates, everyone running for office is a Christian if they can get your vote.

see ya
Mike

 2007/8/2 18:17Profile









 Re:

Quote:

reformer wrote:
The way I read it was that you had a vision to leave the church you were attending and gather where ever GOds people gather. I construed it as a revelation from God to leave the fellowhip and just wander from place to place. I may have read it to fast and not fully understood it all. thats why I said what i said.

If I misunderstood you...sorry.

Mike :-)

Hi Bro Mike

You did misunderstand me, but that's OK.
What I meant by "revelation" was something that you have probably experienced too, on other matters: You think you understand a truth, then the Lord floods your heart with fresh light on the subject and it's almost as if you never [i]really[/i] understood it before at all.

That is what happened to me re the Church. Not a new teaching but a fresh revelation of what has always been there in Scripture. I saw – [i]really[/i] saw - for the first time that I was part of a Body that transcends distance and time, "the whole family in heaven and earth..."

In practice, “going where God’s people gather” has meant nothing in the slightest like “church hopping”. In fact I was rather alarmed at some others' comments on this thread, which seem to be taking things much too far in that direction, or advocating not having fellowship at all in the sense of meeting together for worship.

Since leaving the Presbyterian Church in 1983[edit date!], I spent from 1983 to 2002 (nearly 20 years!)in fellowship with a little AOG church near home. This was where the Lord led me to go. I would probably be there still if it wasn’t for a move after working abroad between 2002-2003. On returning I stayed in a few different places for several months, and went consistently to a local church fellowship in each place – a Charismatic Anglican (Episcopal I think you call them), another AOG, and finally after moving to the present address nearly 3 years ago, to a Restoration-based fellowship, about 8 miles away, where I’ve been ever since.

The Lord won’t let me become an “official” member there, which I think bothers them. Re church, I just can’t belong to anything less than the whole Body any more, even though based at a local fellowship wherever I happen to live.

The Restoration movement used to be into “heavy shepherding”, but this particular church has moderated a lot, although there are still strong traces of this spirit, which surface now and again.

At one point last year I did think "I'm outta here". This was when a visiting speaker - the principal of the denominational Bible College - came to give some talks. I think his brief was to bring us back into order! He wanted us to toe the party line and obey the doctrine of our "apostle". His interpretation of "they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine" in Acts was that we should obey the particular "Apostle" of the denomination – one of two brothers who started the movement (the other brother has died). He suggested (kindly!)that if we weren’t comfortable with that then maybe we should find another church - because they didn't want anyone on board who wasn't fully committed to that church alone!

I found this false teaching appalling, and didn't go to meetings for a couple of weeks. But then found myself going back.

I can’t leave unless the Lord sends me somewhere else. There are two quite lively churches within walking distance of here, but neither of them are where He wants me it seems. Although I did go to the house group of one (a Baptist) for a while (until other commitments on that night made it impossible).

So I'm not really a church hopper (sounds like some kind of insect! :-D )

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/8/2 18:47









 Re:

Quote:

sojourner7 wrote:
I long to see a Church radiant with the
light of the gospel shining, a Church
set apart for the cause of the cross and
the kingdom of God, a Church filled with a
people for His own possession!! :-D

AMEN!!!!

 2007/8/2 18:48
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:

LittleGift wrote:
Quote:

reformer wrote:
The way I read it was that you had a vision to leave the church you were attending and gather where ever GOds people gather. I construed it as a revelation from God to leave the fellowhip and just wander from place to place. I may have read it to fast and not fully understood it all. thats why I said what i said.

If I misunderstood you...sorry.

Mike :-)

Hi Bro Mike

You did misunderstand me, but that's OK.
What I meant by "revelation" was something that you have probably experienced too, on other matters: You think you understand a truth, then the Lord floods your heart with fresh light on the subject and it's almost as if you never [i]really[/i] understood it before at all.

That is what happened to me re the Church. Not a new teaching but a fresh revelation of what has always been there in Scripture. I saw – [i]really[/i] saw - for the first time that I was part of a Body that transcends distance and time, "the whole family in heaven and earth..."

In practice, “going where God’s people gather” has meant nothing in the slightest like “church hopping”. In fact I was rather alarmed at some others' comments on this thread, which seem to be taking things much too far in that direction, or advocating not having fellowship at all in the sense of meeting together for worship.

Since leaving the Presbyterian Church in 1983[edit date!], I spent from 1983 to 2002 (nearly 20 years!)in fellowship with a little AOG church near home. This was where the Lord led me to go. I would probably be there still if it wasn’t for a move after working abroad between 2002-2003. On returning I stayed in a few different places for several months, and went consistently to a local church fellowship in each place – a Charismatic Anglican (Episcopal I think you call them), another AOG, and finally after moving to the present address nearly 3 years ago, to a Restoration-based fellowship, about 8 miles away, where I’ve been ever since.

The Lord won’t let me become an “official” member there, which I think bothers them. Re church, I just can’t belong to anything less than the whole Body any more, even though based at a local fellowship wherever I happen to live.

The Restoration movement used to be into “heavy shepherding”, but this particular church has moderated a lot, although there are still strong traces of this spirit, which surface now and again.

At one point last year I did think "I'm outta here". This was when a visiting speaker - the principal of the denominational Bible College - came to give some talks. I think his brief was to bring us back into order! He wanted us to toe the party line and obey the doctrine of our "apostle". His interpretation of "they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine" in Acts was that we should obey the particular "Apostle" of the denomination – one of two brothers who started the movement (the other brother has died). He suggested (kindly!)that if we weren’t comfortable with that then maybe we should find another church - because they didn't want anyone on board who wasn't fully committed to that church alone!

I found this false teaching appalling, and didn't go to meetings for a couple of weeks. But then found myself going back.

I can’t leave unless the Lord sends me somewhere else. There are two quite lively churches within walking distance of here, but neither of them are where He wants me it seems. Although I did go to the house group of one (a Baptist) for a while (until other commitments on that night made it impossible).

So I'm not really a church hopper (sounds like some kind of insect! :-D )

Blessings

Jeannette




Sister you said everything just beautifully! I so appreciate your comments and testimony. You get it, you understand. Actually I don't even need to say anymore!( I know, it surprising! :-) )

Thank the Lord for Godly woman that know the truth and stand up when most men are to busy watching the world go by.

AMEN

Love ya
Mike

 2007/8/2 19:58Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

brother mike (reformer) and moemac,

brothers, can i first say that no one is against you guys as if you are the target. i believe that the thread got locked because the moderator wants to see talk of scriptures or doctrine, but not politics. (please forgive me if i'm wrong, but i believe that i read that from the moderator).

i agrre that we should not say whether one is saved or not as if we truly know. but we can judge the fruits of the life and are actually commanded to do so. but i would never say that because of a person worshipping the Lord with other believers in a building or home, that they are not saved.

like i said before brothers, i personally believe that a home fellowship is more biblical in that it is usually more..
* each other oriented
* every member participating
* very cost effective (no salaries, morgages, vans, budgets, and programs to pay for)
* real (it's hard to just "come to church" and slip by unnoticed when there is only 15 people)
* fellowship oriented (eating meals together and worshipping together in a close atmosphere brings unity)
* backed a lot by scripture

like i said, i'm not against people meeting in buildings, i just believe that the NT shows us a better way to meet.

Quote:
No one yet has mentioned anything about tithing or giving? If a few meet in a house, where do the offerings go? Are we not to support those that labor for the truth. Which is a command.

brother reformer, i was gonna let this go by because tithing is a personal preference and it has been discussed on here plenty of times. but because you mentioned it like 3 times, i will try to address it for tithing and giving for you in a brief way.

brother tithing was a law given to the jews. the NT is explicitly clear that we are not under the OT law, but Christ has fulfilled the law. He was born of a woman, under the law, to redeem those under the law. (gal 4) the purpose of the law was to point us to Christ, but Christ is the end of the law. we who are born again, by His Spirit, love the Lord with all we have and love others as ourselves and thus fulfill the law (matt 22). what was the purpose of the tithes in the OT? to support the levites and priests who didn't work. this was the God ordained way to feed them. who is the priesthood in the NT?? pastors of "churches"?? by no means. we believers are a royal priesthood and a holy nation (1 peter 2).

brother, let me ask you a few questions...
* do you observe the sabbath as they did in the OT??
* do you have to be circumsised?
* do you have to follow the dietary laws of the OT??
why not? because we are not under the law my friend. if you say, well abraham tithed before there was a law, then let me ask you a few more questions...
* does the scripture ever say he was commanded to tithe??
* did abraham tithe off of his possessions or the spoils from the war?
* does scripture say if it was something to continually be done??
no, it was a one-time act that abraham offered up to the Melchieldiek(sp), when he was on his way back from rescuing lot. he offered the spoils from the war and not his personal possessions. i am only recapping all this because it is a common objection to not tithing.

now, what do about tithing and the "church". first, if we meet in homes like the NT believers did, then there is no need to have tithing (we have no pastors on "staff" and no overhead like morgage and building programs and stuff like that). it is only when we take on extra possessions like a building, vans, staff, etc that we need to start someway of bringing in money to pay for this stuff. that is the birth of the modern day tithing doctrine and why we need it today.

is giving scriptural?? yes, yes, yes. personally i do not believe that tithing is scriptural as i have listed a few reasons above, but i fully support giving to support the poor, homeless, orphans, struggling believers and missionaries (which are kinda like apostles of the NT). how should we give? gratefully and with a cheerful heart. is there any percentage that we have to give? no, but as the Lord has spoken to your heart (as the believer has purposed in his heart). but as i have said above, if we meet in homes, parks, or in the street, there is no need of a tithing law and then the money being given freely can go directly to what it was intended to go to in the first place...the true ministry (poor, widows, orphans, missionaries, etc).

but brother, if you believe you should give 10%, then by all means, obey that. i would just warn you not to try to place all believers under a law that we were never meant to be under in the first place.

"if you allow yourself to be circumcised, then you are obligated to keep the whole law. you have become estranged from Christ, you who attemt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace" (gal 5:3,4). i am not saying you are not saved, please don't come away thinking that i am saying that. all i am saying is if we allow ourselves to be placed under law in one area of our life, then we are obligated to keep the whole law. if you believe you should tithe, then brother do so in faith. but please brother, don't try to place other believers under the law. money is a matter of the heart. our money, time and resources are all God's and should be held loosely so that when God desires whatever He desires from us, then we should offer it up to Him freely. brother, it is all His, not just 10%.

brothers, i hope that you can hear what i am saying to you. i appreciate your guys' heart to love God and love others. that is the most important thing.



 2007/8/2 20:26Profile





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