Jesse said

Oh sis dorcas,
don't go bringing history into this, we might have to think about all our presuppositions, and then be faced with the fact that Rome has never been a friend of Protestant doctrine, and has set out to merge theirs with ours to do away with what they perceived as heresy. I would really encourage folks to read The Council of Trent, specifically the section on justification. Also it would do well to read the Roman Catholic Catechism. Compare these to Historic Protestant doctrine, and what is held by many today, and you will be forced to make some difficult choices.

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patrick heaviside

Oh Patrick!

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patrick heaviside

I believe that Scripture is able to deliver one from the trappings of the culture one finds himself in. To say that "culture" or "history" is an excuse for the outworkings of one's heart is based on unbelief...

Listen to the arguement presented by ...

Ethics: An Introduction by James P. Eckman Grace University, Omaha NE

In modern culture the terms ethics and morals are virtual synonyms. Quite frankly the confusion over the interchangeableness of these two terms is understandable. But it is wrong. From history we learn that the two words have different meanings. Ethics comes from the Greek word ethos, meaning a “stall” for horses, a place of stability and permanence. The word morality came from mores which describes the shifting behavioral patterns of society.

Ethics is what is normative, absolute. It refers to a set of standards around which we organize our lives and from which we define our duties and obligations. It results in a set of imperatives that establishes behavior patterns that are acceptable. It is what people ought to do. By contrast, morality is more concerned with what people do. It describes what people are already doing, often regardless of any absolute set of standards.

We now see the problem of the modern human condition. When ethics and morality are confused and mixed, the result is that the culture makes the norms. The “standards” become relativistic and changing. That which is the norm is identified with that which is the absolute. The absolute standards are consumed by the fluid nature of the culture. Relativism triumphs over the absolute.

This is where modern culture is today. We determine the norm of human behavior through statistical studies, like the Kinsey report did on human sexuality. Behavior which the Bible condemns (e.g., adultery, homosexuality) is practiced widely, statistical analysis demonstrates. Therefore, since this behavior is widely practiced, that becomes society’s norm and therefore its ethical standard. Ethics becomes a relativistic, floating set of patterns which determines our duty and obligation. Nothing is absolute and nothing is forever. That which the culture thought was nailed down is not. It is fluid as a changing river.

The Bible will have none of this. The deep-seated conviction of the Christian is the proposition that God exists and that He has revealed Himself. That revelation is verbal and propositional; it is contained in the Bible. That revelation contains the absolute set of standards rooted in God’s character and will. He knows what is best for us because He created us and He redeemed us. Therefore, His verbal revelation contains the absolute standard on which we base our lives and construct our duties and obligations to the family, the church, and the state.

To God ethics is not a set of fluid standards. It is a set of absolutes that reflects His character and defines human duty. He wants us to love Him and love our neighbor as ourselves. This twin injunction is a powerful example of duty to God and duty to other humans. They are imperatives for all humans. They constitute a supernatural window into what is good, right, just, and perfect. As Erwin Lutzer has argued, “We must be willing to set aside temporarily the question of what actions are right or wrong to focus on a more basic question; what makes an action right or wrong?” that is why God has the right to say to us, “Be holy for I am holy.” He, the Creator, sets the standard against which we must measure all behavior.


end of thought...

Scripture through the power of the Holy Spirit can deliver completely those who are held captive to Satan's world... To say one's walk is colored by the history of the day falls into the same trap that this author describes above.

The one who is of the right spirit, will be conformed into the image of His Son. He will be seperated from the spirit who kills...

In Christ
Jeff

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Jeff Marshalek

I am absolutely appalled at the tone of this thread! The number of people who work hard to justify Calvin!...Who downplay his role in the killing of 'heretics'....I can only shake my head in wonder....am so sad...disappointed ...grieved at the lack of godly love.

ginnyrose

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Sandra Miller

ginnyrose said

All of this seems to come down to the blunders of Augustine, who really seems to be the Father of both Roman Catholicism and Calvinism, the Catholics took more of his practical doctrines, the Calvinists took more of his theological doctrines.

[b]But can we all at least agree [/b]that Augustine was terribly mistaken, if not intentionally sinning, when using Lk 14:23 to justify persecuting others into conversion?

[b]And can we at least agree [/b]that Calvin was either mistaken, or sinning, when using Lk 14:23 to justify his tactics of conversion by persecution?

Is it not obvious that the one who uses Lk 14:23 for those purposes is either intellectually deficient or is purposely twisting scripture?

Either their [i]character[/i], or their [i]understanding[/i], was wrong. Or possibly both.

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Benjamin Valentine