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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Should heretics (non-calvinists) be burned alive?

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theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

Does a police offer grieve after shooting and killing a dangerous criminal wielding a weapon? I imagine many officers do. I likewise surmise that, from Calvin's perspective, he grieved that such measures were necessary for the state to finish and make an example against the poisonous heresies of Michael Servetus.

It seems black and white to me that religion cannot be mandated, especially as I believe that things of God cannot be received apart from the Spirit of God.

And what about "harmless as doves" and "My kingdom is not of this world"?

I have for some time suspected that a Christian in politics is confused, seduced, or no Christian at all. Of course I am young and may recant this view.

 2007/7/26 18:41Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

I was thinking how these verses apply to this situation-
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say,

We all know that this speaks of the heart, and then when you think about when Christ said, "whoever of you is without sin cast the first stone" I wonder how many of us have never "murdered" another even on the boards here.

Our hearts are so vile that without Christ, there would be nothing good to come out of them.

Just something to ponder brethren.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/26 19:33Profile









 Re: Should heretics (non-calvinists) be burned alive?

I think we should walk away from religion and towards Jesus, who is the Word, and He said to us, "Don't be afraid, just believe".

Recieve the Kingdom of God as a child with a simple faith, unsullied, unadultered and unfiltered disregarding men who get "hyper-religious".

Religion is death, you see it today, all over the world, in various forms, words, bombs, knives, ropes, etc.

Jesus is life and life everlasting, the rest, mere words, a tree without fruit.

 2007/7/26 19:49









 Re:

worm4Christ said

Quote:
I think we should walk away from religion...



But then we'd be (gasp!) naked!

What could we possibly wear instead of these leaves?

 2007/7/26 20:54
heartablaze
Member



Joined: 2007/4/12
Posts: 65


 Re: Luke 14:23

Quote:

Lazarus1719 wrote:
....Calvin quotes Lk 14:23 to support and justify persecuting and punishing heretics.




"And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled." Luke 14:23

Is that the right reference (because I can not figure out how it could be used in that manner, even after twisting)?


_________________
Kelsey

 2007/7/26 21:59Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:

heartablaze wrote:
Quote:

Lazarus1719 wrote:
....Calvin quotes Lk 14:23 to support and justify persecuting and punishing heretics.




"And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled." Luke 14:23

Is that the right reference (because I can not figure out how it could be used in that manner, even after twisting)?




Compel them with a sword.... In other words kill them if they don't convert. I'm fairly sure that is what he (not Jesus) means.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/7/26 22:01Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

I'm still waiting to see proof of the 57 people Calvin killed.

All this and no mention that Calvin and the Geneva Church sent many missionaries to Rome who were killed by the Roman Catholics there. No mention that the first missionaries to Brazil were sent by Calvin before the Portuguese take over and subsequent deal with the Vatican to Romanize Brazil.

Those two missionaries were also martyred.

Jesse, you must not have seen that part, so I just thought I'd fill in some blanks lest you make an unfair presentation of someone, which would be lying.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/26 22:05Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I'm still waiting to see proof of the 57 people Calvin killed.



I don't have any videos of Calvin doing it, neither can I show you the dead mens bones, this is all I got:

* Samuel Fisk, Calvinistic Paths Retraced, Murfreesboro, TN: Biblical Evangelism Press, 1985, pg 115

* Earle E. Cairns, Christianity Through The Centuries: A History of the Christian Church, Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House, 1981, p. 311

* Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol VIII, Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Reprinted 1995, Third Edition, Revided, pp. 492, 493

* Dan Corner, The Believer's Conditional Security, Evangelical Outreach, 2000, p 36

 2007/7/30 0:35
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

I am not waiting to see proof that Calvin had a role in so many people's deaths, but I am interested to see a scriptural presentation of the fact that no one ought to be executed by the state for committing crimes. I write this because many of those who Calvin testified against had been convicted of "spreading the plague through witchcraft, namely smearing potions on people's doors."

Think of it this way... Satan was allowed by God to give Job boils. Many afflictions in the gospels were related to spirits. The plague caused boils. People were caught practicing spells intended to call on Satan's power to produce such results. They were even smearing potions on peoples doors, which shows definite intent to kill. So was Calvin unjustified in testifying against them of the evils of witchcraft? Hardly, I would say. Perhaps I would have done the same if I were in his shoes, for the sake of the whole city?

Others of those executed had been involved in repeated adultery. Was God foolish for establishing such severe punishment? Is it wrong for a secular state to adopt God's Old Testament methods?

It seems there is a very narrow scope of judgment taking place.

 2007/7/30 0:51Profile









 Re:

I can't think of any scripture that says the government should execute non-Christians for being non-Christians.

It's one thing to execute a murderer for being a murderer, or a rapist for being a rapist. But to execute someone because they were not a Calvinist cannot be supported by Scripture.

Unless you could show me where the bible says that non-believers, or non-calvinists (some equate the two) should be burned alive at the stake?

I believe that the biblical means of dealing with non-believers and heretics is by reasoning and persuading from the scriptures, not by "compelling" with torture and then burning them alive.

 2007/7/30 1:10





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