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roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
John 1:13 Children born not of natural descent, nor of human effort or a husband's will, but born of God.



So, how does this negate what I have been saying? If anything, it affirms what I have been saying, a man cannot birth himself in the natural or spiritual realm, so the issue of a man being born again because of his choice seems to be proven false here does it not?



_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/25 22:40Profile
adamdawkins
Member



Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 140


 Re:

Quote:

roaringlamb wrote:
Quote:
John 1:13 Children born not of natural descent, nor of human effort or a husband's will, but born of God.



So, how does this negate what I have been saying? If anything, it affirms what I have been saying, a man cannot birth himself in the natural or spiritual realm, so the issue of a man being born again because of his choice seems to be proven false here does it not?




I believe the point was that the correct translation isn't "the will of man" (i.e. all humanity, including oneself) but more 'the will of a man' - perhaps 'another man' --> i.e. "men don't pronounce who is saved and who isn't"

The emphasis was also in the context of "those who received Him".

 2007/7/25 23:42Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
roaringlamb wrote:
Quote:
John 1:13 Children born not of natural descent, nor of human effort or a husband's will, but born of God.



So, how does this negate what I have been saying? If anything, it affirms what I have been saying, a man cannot birth himself in the natural or spiritual realm, so the issue of a man being born again because of his choice seems to be proven false here does it not?

Choosing christ is not birthing ones self.
The Verse is saying that Physical desent, effort, or a husband wanting a child is [b]not like[/b] that of Spiritual birth. It is a comparison of the two.
V.12: He gave to them [b]authority[/b] [u]to become[/u] children of God [b]to those who are believing[/b] in His name.
[b]cpmpaired to:[/b]
V.13: who were begotten, not from...

[u]The authority is the right to[/u] choose to believe.
The term "to become" means what is sais, He gave the oppertunity to become. It doesn't say that "He made the be."

If it is not of choice, it is involantary.
Would you want a spouse wed to you involentarily?
A spouse that you had to brain wash, or coerce into marrying you?

The verse I presented is not about ones self chooseing or inward determination, but of outward determinations; Physical desent, effort, or a husband wanting a child.

 2007/7/26 9:41Profile
TimmyJoe
Member



Joined: 2007/6/19
Posts: 120
Panama City, FL

 Re:

This whole post is making me sick.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col. 2:6,7

I don't care if you believe in eternal security or not. It really does't matter, because either way we still have to (Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Heb. 12:14).

So when you meet a man who is not saved, don't try to explain to him the doctrines of men. Point him to Jesus Christ.

You see we think we're so smart with our doctrines and our theology. These doctrines are useless without faith in Jesus Christ. A man can study theology for years, but if he never gets on his knees in child like faith and enters in to communion with Jesus Christ he will never know God.

One thing I know for a fact is WE GOTTA BELIEVE! He is, and he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb. 11:6 Not of them that diligently study theology.

LOVE YOU ALL! Timmyjoe

 2007/7/26 18:36Profile









 Re:

Quote:
So when you meet a man who is not saved, don't try to explain to him the doctrines of men. Point him to Jesus Christ.




These are not doctrines of men. Read Romans. Read Isaiah. Read John. It's nick-named Calvinism. However, Jesus was the first to teach these doctrines. So, we can call it Jesus Doctrine. Paul also taught the doctrines of Grace. Isaiah taught it. John taught it. The name Calvinism is just the name. Calvin didn't make these doctrines up. The doctrines of Grace are everywhere in the Bible. They're not a man's doctrines. It's God's doctrine. How shall you point a man to Jesus Christ, if you don't preach and teach the word of God. The word of God is the Doctrine of Jesus. Doctrine is important. We should warn others about false doctrines if we love them.

God bless you! -Abraham

 2007/7/26 19:43
LiveforGod
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 Re: All Christians Are Calvinist When They're on Their Knees.

Well, one thing I do Know is that all Christians are in the precence of God allmighty When They're on Their Knees, and that alone should be enough to make anybody tremble to call themselfs anything. All I know is that I was a sinner and he made me his child. Praise God I am nothing but his.


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Samuel

 2007/7/26 19:57Profile
TimmyJoe
Member



Joined: 2007/6/19
Posts: 120
Panama City, FL

 Re:

Quote:
So, we can call it Jesus Doctrine.



Brother Abe,
I never read anywhere Jesus giving 5 points about God's grace and how it works. I do, however, remember Jesus giving a parable about a sower. This parable explains how the ground (heart) is in different conditions when the seed is sown. Please tell me why it is any harder for a rich man to be saved if God just elects folks. How can the ground be broken and ready to recieve if it is covered in thorns?

The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Ps. 34:18

Oh brother, listen to what I'm telling you. God's election is based on foreknowledge (1Peter 1:2)Of what. Of the ground in which the seed will be sown. I believe God will trouble the waters of a mans life, but will never force his grace on anyone who doesn't want it.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: Deu. 30:19

Our responsibility is to plant the seed, sow the seed, and let God do the rest.

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 1Cor.3:6

We seem to have a hard time believeing if we don't understand everything. I don't understand much at all. Don't let your intellect get in the way of God.

For thus saith the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns. Jer. 4:3

The Word of God is spiritual and no man can explain the ways God works. But we must trust him and do what he has called us to do. BELIEVE!!! Jesus Christ said follow me, so no matter what causes us to do it. We must.

I love you brother, but I cannot agree with a doctrine that puts God in such a small box. We as men will NEVER understand this in this life. Both Calvinism and Arminianism are incorrect. Sure they both have some truth, but should not be used to teach men about God. Point a man to Jesus Christ and then pray. The Holy Spirit will lead into all truth.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Col.2:6,7

With Love-Timmyjoe

 2007/7/27 21:17Profile









 Re:

Amen Timmy good post.

Sounds as if we heard some of the same words from HIM. The parable of the seed sower opened up so much more understanding for me after I read it a few years ago and understood it. Here is one of first post on SI.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=17915&forum=40&0

 2007/7/27 21:55









 Re:

Quote:
Well, one thing I do Know is that all Christians are in the precence of God allmighty When They're on Their Knees, and that alone should be enough to make anybody tremble to call themselfs anything. All I know is that I was a sinner and he made me his child. Praise God I am nothing but his.



Amen... Brother. Very edifying thoughts.

 2007/7/27 22:24









 Re:

Quote:
I love you brother, but I cannot agree with a doctrine that puts God in such a small box. We as men will NEVER understand this in this life. Both Calvinism and Arminianism are incorrect. Sure they both have some truth, but should not be used to teach men about God. Point a man to Jesus Christ and then pray. The Holy Spirit will lead into all truth.



"Point a man to Jesus Christ and then pray."

Amen... Brother. very edifying truth. I want to share this with you to edify you.

It so good to the hear gospel of our Lord Jesus. It never is old news. His mercies are new every morning. Hallelujah! This is a quote from Spurgeon's sermon "Lama Sabachthan?"


The last of the three points is this, let us abhor the sin which brought such agony upon our beloved Lord. What an accursed thing is sin, which crucified the Lord Jesus! Do you laugh at it? Will you go and spend an evening to see a mimic performance of it? Do you roll sin under your tongue as a sweet morsel, and then come to God's house, on the Lord's-day morning, and think to worship him? Worship him! Worship him, with sin indulged in your breast! Worship him, with sin loved and pampered in your life! O sirs, if I had a dear brother who had been murdered, what would you think of me if I valued the knife which had been crimsoned with his blood? —if I made a friend of the murderer, and daily consorted with the assassin, who drove the dagger into my brother's heart? Surely I, too, must be an accomplice in the crime! Sin murdered Christ; will you be a friend to it? Sin pierced the heart of the Incarnate God; can you love it? Oh, that there was an abyss as deep as Christ's misery, that I might at once hurl this dagger of sin into its depths, whence it might never be brought to light again! Begone, O sin! Thou art banished from the heart where Jesus reigns! Begone, for thou hast crucified my Lord, and made him cry, "Why hast thou forsaken me?" O my hearers, if you did but know yourselves, and know the love of Christ, you would each one vow that you would harbour sin no longer. You would be indignant at sin, and cry,

"The dearest idol I have known,
Whate'er that idol be,
Lord, I will tear it from its throne,
And worship only thee,"

May that be the issue of my morning's discourse, and then I shall be well content. The Lord bless you! May the Christ who suffered for you, bless you, and out of his darkness may your light arise! Amen.
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/2133.htm

This is from Spurgeon's sermon "The First Cry from the Cross"

Listen attentively to these sentences. I will make them as terse and condensed as possible. Some of you here are not saved. Now, some of you have been very ignorant, and when you sinned you did not know what you did. You knew you were sinners, you knew that, but you did not know the far-reaching guilt of sin. You have not been attending the house of prayer long, you have not read your Bible, you have not Christian parents. Now you are beginning to be anxious about your souls. Remember your ignorance does not excuse you, or else Christ would not say, "Forgive them;" they must be forgiven, even those that know not what they do, hence they are individually guilty; but still that ignorance of yours gives you just a little gleam of hope. The times of your ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent. Bring forth, therefore, fruits meet for repentance. The God whom you have ignorantly forgotten is willing to pardon and ready to forgive. The gospel is just this, trust Jesus Christ who died for the guilty, and you shall be saved. O may God help you to do so this very morning, and you will become new men and new women, a change will take place in you equal to a new birth; you will be new creatures in Christ Jesus.
But ah! My friends, there are some here for whom even Christ himself could not pray this prayer, in the widest sense at any rate, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do," for you have known what you did, and every sermon you hear, and especially every impression that is made upon your understanding and conscience by the gospel, adds to your responsibility, and takes away from you the excuse of not knowing what you do. Ah! Sirs, you know that there is the world and Christ, and that you cannot have both. You know that there is sin and God, and that you cannot serve both. You know that there are the pleasure of evil and the pleasures of heaven, and that you cannot have both. Oh! In the light which God has given you, may his Spirit also come and help you to choose that which true wisdom would make you choose. Decide to-day for God, for Christ, for heaven. The Lord decide you for his name's sake. Amen.

Praise God for His mercy upon us! We are truly blessed.

I'm not the best at trying to get across what calvinism is and isn't. But, I would recommend hearing it from Spurgeon... A man who preached the gospel in such a way that few have ever preached.

http://www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm

God bless you! -Abraham



 2007/7/27 22:50





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