SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : All Christians Are Calvinist When They're on Their Knees.

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 Next Page )
PosterThread
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Brother Logic and others,
Please be patient with me, I am asking these questions to understand.

If it is as many say that God foresees faith in those whom He elects, then isn't this still limiting Christ's work based upon God's election?
(As we have determined that Christ's work cannot be for all mens' sins else all would be saved, because unbelief is a sin that would have to be forgiven as well)

So now, would this mean that God favoured some over others because He saw something in them that others did not have(faith)?


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/25 15:33Profile
adamdawkins
Member



Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 140


 Re: All Christians Are Calvinist When They're on Their Knees.

Quote:
Please understand, I'm not mocking the way somebody prays or making fun of someone.



Perhaps not, but you are speaking foolishly.

Quote:
That's Calvinism. So maybe we're all calvinist. However, like me... many started out a confused calvinist. (Preaching like an Arminian and praying like a Calvinist.)



I am trusting that the heart of this post is good, and no offense was meant (though some provocation maybe) - I feel this has really taken to extremes.

I could equally say "All Christians are Arminean when they preach the Gospel"

Have you ever heard anyone preach:

"The Good News of the Gospel is that Christ
[i]might[/i] have died for you. If you aren't listening to the Word, and are resisting it, don't worry, because God will either make you obey and you'll agree with me in the end and we'll both be in Heaven - or you're already going to Hell so it's irrelevant what you do.

Come to Jesus today, no, not all of you, only those that are going to come anyway. I bring good news, if you're a special one - if not, bad luck."

OF COURSE No-one would preach like this.

If only you had concluded that perhaps calvinism and armineanism aren't mutually exclusive in part, and that there has to be some cross-over in any Chirstian life, it'd be good (I think I mentioned praying like a calvinist and preaching like an arminean in another post) - I just don't know what this post is set out to achieve?!

All I can conclude is that you've thought long and hard about us Armineans (I say that, I'm not, I just believe in free-will and not unconditional election - I've read no armineanism) and realised that perhaps we don't pray like arrogant Heathen...

 2007/7/25 15:57Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

roaringlamb wrote:

Quote:
But, people speak poorly of limited atonement when it is linked to God, yet when man is the one making the limitation it's ok?

So, if the atonement is limited by unbelief, why then do many say it is for everyone?

It cannot be, for either all are saved because all sin is forgiven, or it is limited right?

It isn't limited in scope but in gaurenty; Christ's work makes redemption possible for all but guaranteed for only those apply it to themselves.

Salvation is limited for only those who have faith, why the confusion about this?

Quote:
roaringlamb wrote:
So now, would this mean that God favoured some over others because He saw something in them that others did not have(faith)?

Of course.
It is imposible to please Gos without choosing to have faith(Heb 11:6).

 2007/7/25 16:56Profile









 Re:

There are many Bible Believing Christians who believe in their eternal security and are NOT Armenian or Calvinist. I'm one. I actually get offended when Calvinists try to indoctrinate you and tell you to read their materials or the Institutes of Calvin. It seems like that is their mission in life...and not sharing the Gospel with the lost. Anyone who holds up a doctrine over the scriptures or is always giving you materials to read reminds me of the Mormons or JW's or such. Let's just stay with Scripture and let Scripture teach scripture as it is suppose to do. Why is it so important to Calvinists to indoctrinate you???

Many believe in eternal secutiry and totally disagree with the 4 or 5 or 6 points of Calvinism.

If a Calvinist doesn't believe Faith comes by hearing, why and what good are they anyway? Seems like they just like sticking their tongues out at the world and saying...Ha..Ha..Ha.. God picked me and not you! Or make up silly prayers to poke fun....tht is NOT of the Lord!!!


Sorry, just had to let my feelings made known!

Love in Christ
Katy-did

 2007/7/25 17:01
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Salvation is limited for only those who have faith, why the confusion about this?



My confusion lies in this. If I say God limits those who will be saved on the basis of election, people have a fit and tell me I am cruel and making God a mocker of man.

However if you say that man limits the atonement through his lack of faith, all say, "amen."

But to move beyond that, where does this faith come from?

From how I see this, it seems that so long as man has the last decision everyone is happy, but remove that decision, and everyone shouts, "unfair!"

I am really trying to grasp what the other side believes, as it does not make sense to me at the moment.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/25 17:19Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
If a Calvinist doesn't believe Faith comes by hearing, why and what good are they anyway?



If someone says this, their theology matters little, as the Scripture says that faith comes by hearing, and to deny that is denying Scripture.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/25 17:21Profile
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 640
Missouri

 Re:

roaringlamb,

Quote:
However if you say that man limits the atonement through his lack of faith, all say, "amen."



I'm not really sure what you mean by this statement. Could you elaborate?

I'm not an Arminian by-the-way, but I don't think they would necessarily agree with that statement either.


_________________
SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2007/7/25 17:45Profile
adamdawkins
Member



Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 140


 Re:

Quote:
There are many Bible Believing Christians who believe in their eternal security and are NOT Armenian or Calvinist. I'm one. I actually get offended when Calvinists try to indoctrinate you and tell you to read their materials or the Institutes of Calvin



Exactly. There is no way of holding to 'strict' Calvinism or 'strict' Armineanism without having to explain away a few scriptures. I've never read either, but am tired of getting battered with a tulip every 10 seconds!

 2007/7/25 18:03Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
I'm not really sure what you mean by this statement. Could you elaborate?



What I am saying is that, if a Calvinist says that God limits who will partake of the work of the Cross, usually people are quick to say, "unfair, that is not the God of the Bible etc."

But it seems that as long as man is the one who can choose to limit its application men do not have a problem.

It seems that so long as man can retain some say, or maintain some sort of godlike quality(i.e. choosing to partake of Christ), men don't have a problem. But once you get into the total inability and ingratitude towards God that men have, and how they would not seek God unless He gave them the very urge to do so, man begins to become infuriated as he believes there is still something redeemable in him.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/25 18:06Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

"The Good News of the Gospel is that Christ
might have died for you. If you aren't listening to the Word, and are resisting it, don't worry, because God will either make you obey and you'll agree with me in the end and we'll both be in Heaven - or you're already going to Hell so it's irrelevant what you do.

Come to Jesus today, no, not all of you, only those that are going to come anyway. I bring good news, if you're a special one - if not, bad luck."



:-P this is what calvanism looks to me. :-) and im not from arminian.....


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/7/25 18:07Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy