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 Re:

NT:4352
proskuneo (pros-koo-neh'-o); from NT:4314 and a probable derivative of NT:2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)



I understand what you are saying on sometimes seeing performance and not worship. Worship is not only music although worship can be done through music if it brings glory to HIM. Worship is an acknowledgement of the Lordship of Jesus Christ and of God the Father, SON and the HOLY SPIRIT. Worship is something we have need of 24-7 to be pleasing to HIM.

There are times when our flesh quenches the Spirit in our worship, that is when we do what we want instead of what HIS WORD says and we become conformed to the world's standards.

On Sunday we come together as HIS WORD says, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, on purpose, as a corporate body, with all the gifts of the body to lift the name of Jesus.

Worship is doing what God's Word says. We can't be in continual worship if there is an area of our life where Jesus is not welcome or we think it would be inappropriate to speak of HIS love and our dependency on HIS LOVE HIS forgiveness, HIS protection, HIS GIFTS and HIS provision. Without Him we are nothing.


 2007/7/16 8:52









 Re:

Here's something I've always wondered about... you hear some say you should avoid music that appeals to the flesh, and I understand completely that if a particular style invokes sensual feelings, or anger, etc should be avoided by the child of God.

But I've heard many condemn music simply for the enjoyment it brings. Thats considered fleshly by many.

Well... does this mean we should only listen to music we dont enjoy?

Personally, I believe God created nature to be enjoyed by man. I believe God created sex to be enjoyed by a husband and wife, along with all the spiritual unity it brings.

And I believe God created music to be enjoyed by man too. Of course, there are many aspects to music... such as being used in worship of God.

But there is an element of enjoyment in music that I believe God wants us to partake of too.

Sometimes I enjoy country sounds, sometimes I enjoy classical, sometimes I enjoy upbeat (dare I say rock?). I'm speaking about style, not lyrics... obviously we need to avoid lyrics that do not edify us in the Lord.

I grew up on country and rock... and at the end of the day, thats what I gravitate toward. I hate homogenized Christian pop. I dislike most worship and praise music... not the lyrics, but the style. It's too plastic.

I think it is possible for one believer to enjoy a certain style of music and not be sinning at all... while another believer may not be able to.

It comes back to the whole meat issue that Paul so eloquently wrote about. If your conscience doesnt allow you to enjoy a certain style of music, then you should not partake. At the same time, you cant condemn someone who does. And for the person who can partake, you should not let your [b]freedom[/b] be a stumbling block for others.

Krispy

 2007/7/16 9:19
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Good points, Krispy...

I have to admit that I am uncertain about my own position concerning music. That being said, I once held a very staunch anti-"secular" music, anti-"christian rock" stand on the issue.

However, I rarely hear anyone provide a scriptural justification concerning music. There is a lot of conjecture introduced into the subject, but little credible "evidence" to support positions.

Is all secular music wrong?
If yes, does this include classical music?
Why?
Are poems to my wife wrong?
What makes "christian" rock wrong?
Is it the music -- or the desire to be like the world?
Does God have a preference in music?

If you can answer these questions (preferably WITH SCRIPTURE), please do so!

Thanks!

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2007/7/16 11:12Profile









 Re:

Quote:

HomeFree89 wrote:

My background in music has been "Christian" rock (DC Talk, some POD, Newsboys, etc.). Then we received teaching that told us all drumbeats were bad and of the devil, so we got rid of all of our CCM. Just a couple years ago, we started listening to things with drums, bass guitar, electric guitar, but it's not rock (Steve Green,Keith Green, Legacy Five). The Lord had shown us that not all drums are bad, if they aren't the driving force of the music and if the singers are living right before God.


So, as you can see I've listened to a lot that's out there and I wouldn't go back to it. The effect it has on my spirit is a huge reason why I wouldn't listen to it. When I enter a Christian bookstore and I hear the music they're playing it troubles me and I don't like staying there long.

Another reason would be, after checking out the roots of rock and finding out the people who made it acceptable, I realized that we shouldn't be copying it. Should we use the same music in our "worship" that Elvis and Little Richard made popular?

1Jo 2:15 "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

Brother, it blesses me to see how you're seeking and wanting God's best. This is something that God is still working with me on. Just a couple of weeks ago I had to get rid of a couple of CDs that God was convicting me about, but I sure didn't want to get rid of them. They were Southern Gospel, but the spirit was one of amusement and not worship, so the Lord is still teaching me, too.

God bless,
Jordan

What a lovely testimony, Jordan.

Personally I've never heard anyone say that drumbeats are wrong, only [i]certain kinds[/i] of beats.

Not being a musician I couldn't tell you what kinds of beats, only that I know if I hear that kind! A musician did say that it was when the emphasis was on the second beat of the bar, don't know if that's so?

Quote:
The effect it has on my spirit is a huge reason why I wouldn't listen to it.

Yes, that's the decider - except we don't always know that it's having an effect while we're under the influence of something spiritually "unclean". Which is why I testified re fantasy reading - I was totally unable to discern it until the Lord freed me form the "additction".

You said:

Quote:
Just a couple of weeks ago I had to get rid of a couple of CDs that God was convicting me about

That's it, isn't it, to be obedient to the Lord and let Him put His finger on anything in our lives that is a hindrance to us personally. This might well be something that's also evil in itself, but sometimes not.

These days, He ususally convicts me over things like wrong attitudes, though sometimes I'm still gripped by books too (not fantasy but others!)

Isn't it great that we seem to be in agreement on this thread :-P !


Blessings


Jeannette


 2007/7/16 14:31









 Re:

Quote:
Personally I've never heard anyone say that drumbeats are wrong, only certain kinds of beats.



I am not trying to be argumenative here. I do require that someone back this up with God's Word. Otherwise, without a Biblical basis, this is speculative at best.

Pretty please!?!?

If this is true, and music really is a major issue in the Body of Christ, why is scripture strangely silent about it? There is a lot of man's opinions about this subject floating around... but very little Biblical basis for it, if any.

All I am asking is that God's Word be the final authority... not some evangelist that no one has ever heard of who is quoting some musicologist that no one has ever heard of.

Krispy

 2007/7/16 14:55









 Re:

Did I just end this conversion by asking for scripture to back this stuff up?

Hmmm...

Krispy

 2007/7/16 15:42









 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:
Personally I've never heard anyone say that drumbeats are wrong, only certain kinds of beats.



I am not trying to be argumenative here. I do require that someone back this up with God's Word. Otherwise, without a Biblical basis, this is speculative at best.

Pretty please!?!?

If this is true, and music really is a major issue in the Body of Christ, why is scripture strangely silent about it? There is a lot of man's opinions about this subject floating around... but very little Biblical basis for it, if any.

All I am asking is that God's Word be the final authority... not some evangelist that no one has ever heard of who is quoting some musicologist that no one has ever heard of.

Krispy

A good question, but difficult when it's a matter of discerning something that is heard!

It's like that Kenneth Copeland video, in the thread on "holy laughter". Most of us who saw it knew straight away that it wasn't of God, but what Scripture would you use in evidence for that fact?

How would you answer your question in that case, substituting [edit]"holy laughter", or the KC video[edit] for "music"?

Quote:
If this is true, and music really is a major issue in the Body of Christ, why is scripture strangely silent about it? There is a lot of man's opinions about this subject floating around... but very little Biblical basis for it, if any.

All I know personally is that there's some music that I can't stand because of its [u]spirit[/u]. It seems nothing to do with its style or loudness, but - in the case of heavy rock music - does seem to be something to do with the beat.

As far as I know it is also a fact that many witchdoctors use heavy drumbeats (of a particular, hypnotic kind?) to call up the spirits.

I think the basic scriptural principle has already been stated - does it glorify God? Is the music truly worshipping and glorifying Him or not?

The nearest I can come so far to a relevant scripture re music is Exodus 32. Why were the Israelites wrong to dance around the Golden Calf - apart from the obvious fact that it was a "graven image". The calf was [u]supposed[/u] to represent the Lord, and the people hadn't yet received it as a definite law that they shouldn't.

So was there something wrong with their MANNER of worship as well??

There may have been something in the sound of their worship that alerted Moses that there was something wrong, but the passage doesn't make that plain either.

[i][color=000099]17 And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said to Moses, “There is a noise of war in the camp.”
18 But he said:
“It is not the noise of the shout of victory,
Nor the noise of the cry of defeat,
But the sound of singing I hear.”[/color][/i]

The word for "sing" is a usual word meaning worship or bow down, so what was it about the sound???

Sorry Krispy, that's the best I can do at the moment!

Don't [i]you[/i] have any answers to your question?

Blessings

jeannette

 2007/7/16 16:29
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:

I am not trying to be argumenative here. I do require that someone back this up with God's Word. Otherwise, without a Biblical basis, this is speculative at best.




Seeing as they didn't have rock back when the Bible was written, we can't just pull up verses that say "Thou shalt not listen to Rock music." ;-) However, there are principles that apply, like not loving the world. Like I've said before, check out the roots, they aren't godly.

Jordan


_________________
Jordan

 2007/7/16 16:44Profile









 Re:

Quote:

HomeFree89 wrote:
Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:

I am not trying to be argumenative here. I do require that someone back this up with God's Word. Otherwise, without a Biblical basis, this is speculative at best.




Seeing as they didn't have rock back when the Bible was written, we can't just pull up verses that say "Thou shalt not listen to Rock music." ;-) However, there are principles that apply, like not loving the world. Like I've said before, check out the roots, they aren't godly.

Jordan

AMEN!

Re loudness of music, they didn't have that problem in the Olld Testament:

Psalm 150:
[i][color=000099]
Let All Things Praise the Lord
1 Praise the Lord!
Praise God in His sanctuary;
Praise Him in His mighty firmament!
2 Praise Him for His mighty acts;
Praise Him according to His excellent greatness!
3 Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet;
Praise Him with the lute and harp!
4 Praise Him with the timbrel and dance;
Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes!
5 [b]Praise Him with loud cymbals;
Praise Him with clashing cymbals![/b]
6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord![/color][/i]

I can stand that kind of noise!!!


Jeannette

 2007/7/16 17:02









 Re:

We worship in Spirit and Truth. It's hard to stay in the Spirit when you want to get up and dance to Rock and Roll, especially if you came out of the world of Rock and Roll.

I guess we can all ask the question...When Jesus Prayed to the Father, or preached, were there any Rock bands around or bands at all. Did Paul need props to get the message across? or to entertain the troops? Unfortunately today, we need to be entertained with props and Pop music. The world needs to be entertained. Christians need to be sanctified....or set apart...from the world.


The only prop I see Jesus needed was an old rugged cross.

In Christ
Katy-did

 2007/7/16 20:19





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