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 Re:

moe wrote:

Quote:
"if it were possible"
I thank God that it is not possible.

Brother, I wish you were right, but that's the whole point, it [i]IS[/i] possible, and it [i]IS[/i] happening! There are tailor-made deceptions for individuals or groups of Christians - from the rigid Reformed Evangelical to the wilder shades of Charismatic and everything in between.

I understand that [i]many[/i] true German Christians were deceived by Hitler. And he was only a sort of experimental prototype Antichrist. The ultimate Antichrist will be even more deceptive and subtle.

That is why the warning is sounding to all who will hear.

If you think you can't be deceived the chances are that you are already beginning to be.

I know, because of having been deceived through someone some years ago. I know because the Bible says it is possible - our usual interpretation that it isn't is mistaken. The Greek implies that if there is ability, or "power" to be deceived then we will be!

There is no need to be afraid of deception if we are walking day by day as close to the Lord as we know how and be willing to accept His correction. Otherwise we are in danger...

Was it in Pilgrim's Progress that Christian encountered "the Flatterer"? That is one way to be deceived, if we listen to flattery. Or if we seek our own things instead of His, if we have our own agenda, our own need to be recognised, appreciated, valued; to be important, to be in control, to know something that few others know, to be part of the "inner circle", etc etc...

Only the Lord can keep us on His straight path. Our Bible knowledge can't do it, the best of pastors and teahers can't do it, our adherance to right doctrine can't do it, our seeking to be righteous can't do it, our spiritual gifts and understanding can't do it.

Only HIMSELF, and our relationship with HIM will keep us in the storms that are comiing.

in Him

Jeannette

 2007/9/3 12:13









 Re:

Quote:

pastorfrin wrote:
THE FOLLY OF BEING UNPREPARED
"While they went to buy, the Bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with Him to the marriage: and the door was shut." -- Mat_25:10.

THE FOOLISH virgins made five great mistakes.
(1)They made no provision for the continuance of their light. It is not enough merely to have the lamp; it must be lit and maintained, because there is something for the fire to feed on. How many there are who are on fire and in earnest during the first stage of their religious life, but they have made no provision for maintaining the flame which has been kindled by the grace of God. They have lamps, but have neglected to take oil. The oil stands for fellowship with the Lord Jesus, for the grace of the Holy Spirit, for the daily study of the Bible, for the kindling communion of worship with fellow-Christians.
(2)They slept. There was a difference between the sleep of the foolish and that of the wise. There are two kinds of sleep. The one arises from a sense of security and trust. Every preparation has been made; all has been done that could be done, and we resign ourselves deliberately to the care of God. So Peter slept in the prison, before the angel came to deliver him. But there is another kind of sleep. The sleep of the sentry, when the foe is stealing up the pass; of the pilot, when the ship is making for the serried teeth of the rocks; of the nurse, when the patient's life is quivering in the balance. These foolish ones had no right to sleep, when they were so utterly unready to meet the Bridegroom. We must not take things for granted, or say "Peace, peace, when there is no peace!"
(3) They thought they could procure oil from the wise. But the appeal was in vain. Each must bear his own burden of responsibility in the sight of God. We may "buy without money and without price," but each must appropriate the living grace and power of Jesus for himself.
(4)They thought they could get in; "Lord, Lord, open to us!" But the door was irrevocably closed! "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation?"
(5)They thought that the Bridegroom would recognize them. But He said: "I know you not." Let each ask himself: "Does Jesus know me? Will he recognize me at last?" The only way to be sure, is to kneel at the foot of His Cross until He seals us with the Holy Spirit, and says: "Fear not, for I have redeemed thee; I have called thee by thy name, thou art Mine."

PRAYER
O Lord, we pray that our lives may be lamps to which Thou shalt supply oil. Help us to be burning and shining lights for this dark world. AMEN.
F.B. Meyer

AMEN!

Thank you for that fresh and challenging insight on a familiar parable.

Jeannette

 2007/9/3 12:17









 Re:

[color=0000FF]moe wrote.

The mistake the 5 virgins made and the reason they had no oil, is the fact they had not done what was required of Lord, that enabled them to see through the darkness. He is the light of the world. He that is in HIM will never walk in darkness. His Word is a light unto our feet and a lamp unto our pathway. John 1:1 and John 1:14.

It appears in HIS WORD, that the oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit. So yes, they could see not see the bridegroom, because they had no oil.

Many believe in God today according to the polls, but they do not trust in Jesus and the cross. If they don't trust in HIM, they would be foolish, right. His Word tells us that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing, but to those that are saved, it is the power of God unto salvation.

Could it be that the be the ones that had oil were the ones that trusted in Jesus, who is the one, in whom the Holy Spirit comes to us, to supply the oil. The ones that had no oil believed in God, but not HIS SON, don't you think.

When one makes both Jesus both Lord and Savior,we get the oil, the Holy Spirit living within us to guide them into all truth. That why it says, could deceive the elect "if it where possible".

If it were possible to deceive the elect, then he would not have given that statement to the Apostle to write under in inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth.

The reason so many people are being deceived is, they don't have the Holy Spirit living within them, because they are not saved. They have trusted Jesus and the cross.

They have a form of Godliness and deny the power thereof. They go away sad, as the rich young ruler, because they have great possessions.

They have no oil, as the five foolish virgins. They have no unction to get into the Word of God to see if the preacher is giving the truth or not as the Word tells one to.

They have no unction to expose the devils lies, but only want to please men.They are more concerned about what God can do for them than what He has already done us at the cross.

They got to much pride to climb a tree and see Jesus as Zacheuas did.

They have forgotten their first love and they don't want to go back and do the things they did at first, because if the things the church of Ephesus did at first, it won't fit today's culture and they will be scorned by the wicked and won't be popular with the so-called brethren and the world.


They are not willing to put their Isaiac on the alter, because they don't think God will provide as He said He would.

They always gripe about the water even after God has brought them across the Red Sea and the Jordan River because the water is bitter and they are too many giants and they forget about the quail and the manner in the desert they had to eat.


They will sell the vineyards, that their Father gave them as an inheritance to Ahab and Jezebel, because they are afraid to buck up against earthly power in Jesus name. But some will refuse to sell what is God's, as Naboth stood against Ahab and Jezebel for Godly things. Just remember what happened to Ahab and Jezebel. Just as God's messenger said it would.

They have a money price they can be bought at. Sometimes they can be bought for 30 pieces of silver. They will sell their brother for 20 pieces of silver.

They let the Philistine woman entice them and lose their strength God gave them as Samson did.

They are fearful of facing Goliath and are not confident that God will deliver to them exactly what is needed to defeat him.

They have forgotten the about wisdom of Solomon that God gave him, being every under the sun means nothing and is only vanity, vanity, vanity, but only a relationship with the Lord means anything and is the only thing that is eternal.

They have forgotten that God knows all, after they meet Jesus at the well for water, and that He is the only one, that can give that living water for eternal life.

They have forgotten God is the given of every good and perfect gift and it comes from above and that giving back to Him is an act of worship, a gift that every Christian has been given, When they don’t give they quench the Spirit of Lord in the church.

They have forgotten to offer their bodies as a living sacrifice, Holy and pleasing to the Lord, for it is there reasonable service to the Lord.

I have been guilty of all the above in the past and ask God daily to help me overcome all of them, how about you?[/color]













 2007/9/3 13:25
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Quote:
I have been guilty of all the above in the past and ask God daily to help me overcome all of them, how about you?




Yes, Brother
The idea of all who profess Jesus Christ as Lord, have failed in one way or another is reason
not to say they, but we. We have failed, and we are subject to fail again if we begin to think we are something, and do not completely place our trust in Him.

1 Cor. 10:12
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Why do you think we were given this scripture?

2 Cor. 11:13-15
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Satan will fight someone who is doing damage to his kingdom with every trick he has.
Our hope and our salvation is in Jesus Christ,
thus we must continuously look to Him for His keeping. As Paul told Timothy:

2 Tim. 3:15-4:5
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
[4:1] I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; [2] Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. [3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. [5] But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

I think you recognize that the time is here, to follow the advice of our Lord, to:

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.




In His Love
pastorfrin

 2007/9/3 14:43Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
moe_mac wrote:
moe wrote: "if it were possible"
I thank God that it is not possible.


I would also like to comment on this.

Tell me, if it is possilble in this verse:
[b]Rom 12:18 [color=990000]If possible[/b], as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men.[/color]
Then, please, tell me why this is not possible:
[b]Mark 13:22[/b] For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if possible, even the elect.[/color]
I tell you now, that we are still able to be decieved.

Quote:
moe_mac wrote:
If it were possible to deceive the elect, then he would not have given that statement to the Apostle to write under in inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth.

Quite the opposite.

If it were [b]not[/b] possible to deceive the elect, then he would [b]not[/b] have given that statement to the Apostle to write under in inspiration of the Holy Spirit [b]because[/b] of the obsurdity of it happoning.

It would be like saying, "and they shall be giving signs and miracles to lead astray, if possible, even the watermelons".

 2007/9/3 15:45Profile









 Re:

Logic wrote:
Tell me, if it is possible in this verse:
Rom 12:18 If possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men.
Then, please, tell me why this is not possible:
Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if possible, even the elect.[/color]
I tell you now, that we are still able to be decieved.


moe wrote:
[color=003399]He tells us to be at peace with everyone,[u] if possible[/u] Which should tell us, there will be times, when we can't be at peace with everyone, as a christian. Our main objective is promoting HIM and protecting and guarding against evil, not pleasing men.

Even though we have some tribulation in the world today, if I might use a worldly term. We ain't seen nothing yet, like Revelations is talking about. There will be some saved in the tribulation, whether this is to the Jews only I do not know, but it seems during the tribulation only those who don't regard their life more important than proclaiming the name of Jesus will be saved and that could be the message at the present time, as well. The passages below is speaking of the wrath to come upon the world spoken of in Revelations, after the tribulation as it says, I would think.


Mark 13:22-26
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
KJV


We have false prophets today and have always had them, after the fall of Adam and Eve in the garden. How do we distinguish between the prophet of God and the false. First and foremost, if requires HIS SPIRIT living within the one needing to distinguish? Actually the word distinguish is simular in meaning to discerment which only the Spirit of the Lord can give.

1 John 4:1-3
4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
KJV

2Peter 2:1-3
2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2[u] And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.[/u]
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
KJV

Note verse 3 and the last part. Do you see anyone objecting to HIS truth. Complaining about God's Word being spoken in public places. Don't feel they should speak of their faith from certain positions of authority of man. Try to be nuetral when it comes to calling sin, sin. Twisting scripture and saying judge not, when speaking truth is NOT anywhere close to the true description of exactly how a judge carries out duties and the acts of his judgeship and actually being a Judge. Do you see anyone not trying be politically correct as a priority, instead of standing for truth?

Yes, these things will take place and when you look at the whole council of God there are no counterdictions at all in HIS WORD, but only confirmation. We might not know exactly how it will all take place, but rest assured, if He had His Apostles write that the elect could be deceived, that means they can't. Revelations has many events that are hard to understand as well about the antichrist and the false prophet. Revelations say, one will be blessed that reads the things contained the book. Why, could it be because through Christ and HIS forgiveness, they have escaped all those things to come and will also come back with Christ, when He comes in great power as King of Kings and Lord of Lords and every knee will bow and confess that HE is Lord.

Rev 20:6-11
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
KJV


I thank HIM for all things, but one thing we need to thank HIM for is, it is not required of man or woman, to be a theologian to be saved, only childlike faith in Jesus Christ, who took our sins upon HIM, for all that whosoever will. He did not come into the world to comdemn it but through HIM that they might be saved.

Rom 10:17-18
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world."


What is faith?
Heb 11:1-7
11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
KJV

How can they hear?

Rom 10:14-16
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
KJV[/color]

 2007/9/3 17:24









 Re:

Quote:

pastorfrin wrote:
[u]Satan will fight someone who is doing damage to his kingdom with every trick he has.[/u]
Our hope and our salvation is in Jesus Christ,
thus we must continuously look to Him for His keeping. As Paul told Timothy:

2 Tim. 3:15-4:5
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
[4:1] I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; [2] Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. [3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. [5] But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

I think you recognize that the time is here, to follow the advice of our Lord, to:

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.




In His Love
pastorfrin



[u]Satan will fight someone who is doing damage to his kingdom with every trick he has.[/u]

moe wrote:
How well I know!!!!

 2007/9/3 17:34
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
moe wrote:
Quote:
Logic wrote:
Tell me, if it is possible in this verse:
Rom 12:18 If possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men.
Then, please, tell me why this is not possible:
Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if possible, even the elect.

I tell you now, that we are still able to be decieved.

He tells us to be at peace with everyone, if possible Which should tell us, there will be times, when we can't be at peace with everyone, as a christian. Our main objective is promoting HIM and protecting and guarding against evil, not pleasing men.

However, even by your own admittance, there is an possibility to live peaceably with all men, even thought, not at all times.

If there wasn't a possibility to live peaceably with all men, the Apostle would not have told us to to it.

Therefore, it is posible to deceive the elect because of the of the warning in two Gosples.

Even as common sense has it, there is no reason to be warning of an impossibility?

It is like the Holy Spirit sayng to you, the Christian, be warned; they well be attempting to deceive you.
The sad thing is the unequiped saint, who are not fully armed with the whole armor of God, that he may be able to withstand in the evil day(Eph 6:13).

 2007/9/3 19:52Profile









 Re:

I have a post on here somewhere that gives references on where Paul and Peter had differences of opinions at times as well as others. As for the Word of God is written to both the saved and the unsaved. There were times Paul was addressing the saved, there were times he was addressing the lost and at time both the saved and the lost. To the saved God's Word is it is manna and direction for our lives. To the lost it doesn't mean much and they are without understanding until they are convicted of their sins and by faith accept Jesus and trust HIM as both[u] Lord and Savior[/u] are then they are sealed with HIS SPIRIT and HIS WORD is a lamp unto their feet and a light unto their pathway. Does it mean you automatically become theological scholar, no, but you will know them by their fruits. Too many scriptures tell us this truth. Paul is talking to the mainly lost people about being deceived and also to the saved (the church)not neglect instuction of the Word, but to grow in the knowledge of who HE is. There are also people who will be here in the tribulation after the rapture of the church, which all are lost and will continue to be lost until they refuse to bow down to the antichrist and take death for proclaiming JESUS NAME. His church will be gone during the tribulation and With HIM in heaven.

Evidently you see these two scriptures are in the same light and I definaltely don't see it that way. I can't dispute you face to face as Paul did Peter, but I do the closest thing to it that I can.


moe_mac wrote
would deceive the elect, If it [u]were[/u] possible
and live at peace, if it [u]is[/u] possible.


To me there is a world of difference in the two.


Matt 24:24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that,[u] if it were possible[/u], they shall deceive the very elect.
KJV

Rom 12:18
18[u]If it be possible[/u], as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
KJV

Look at good the passages again and tell me this is the same instance and meaning in both passages.:roll:

 2007/9/4 0:54
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

moe_mac wrote:

Quote:

Evidently you see these two scriptures are in the same light and I definaltely don't see it that way. I can't dispute you face to face as Paul did Peter, but I do the closest thing to it that I can.


moe_mac wrote
would deceive the elect, If it [u]were[/u] possible
and live at peace, if it [u]is[/u] possible.


To me there is a world of difference in the two.


Matt 24:24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that,[u] if it were possible[/u], they shall deceive the very elect.
KJV

Rom 12:18
18[u]If it be possible[/u], as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
KJV

Look at good the passages again and tell me this is the same instance and meaning in both passages.:roll:


[b]Rom 12:18[/b] [color=990000]If possible[/color]
ει δυνατόν
Adjective nominative Singular neuter

[b]Mat 24:24[/b] [color=990000]if possible,[/color]
ει δυνατόν
Adjective nominative Singular neuter

Looks the same to me.
Those diferences are not there in the Greek, they are both "if possible"
Neither of them realy have "is" or "were".

I also looked at other passages that have "if possible"(ει δυνατόν); and they all have an uncirtanty to them. Act 20:16, Act 27:39, Gal 4:15.
Therefore, we or anyone can not be for cirtain that it can or can not happen.

Only asume that it can so that we may be ready and on guard!

 2007/9/4 9:39Profile





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