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jarona
Member



Joined: 2007/7/3
Posts: 162
The Earth

 Re:

There is a real difference between demonic (oppression) and (posession) someone can be oppressed by a demon that causes them to fear, as the same with nicotene, or caffiene, etc. Some people believe christians can't have a demon I think that is really foolish and that they need spiritual discernment; but can a christian be entirely posessed? that is a different question. Someone can absolutely be opressed by a demon to the point that they are not fulfilling an amount of Gods' will because the spirit has power over an area of there life which is keeping them in bondage such as (fear of man) or a spirit of fear which can keep people from preaching the gospel, etc.


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Jaron

 2007/7/5 15:59Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: By Name

Quote:
Now a question for you Mike,
when you were born again were you posessed and needed demons cast out of you?


No.

Harrassed? Certainly ... Had I opened the door to this?, absoulutely ...

Quote:
alot of extra-biblical assuption and presumption going on


Precisely the point. This, like so many things seems to fall into the all or nothing camp too often. What is bothersome and dangerous is to diagnois this by theatrics and even by so called 'deliverance ministries' as a specialty. It tends to build itself up upon case history and experience by multiplication to prove it's ... necessity. Then furthers itself by bringing in unscriputral means as 'pragmatic' to it's foundation thereby 'proving' things when they, true or not may be isolated incidents. I have no doubt that [i]some[/i] of these things are in fact true and have listened to a very sincere and humble missinoary discuss issues dealing with witchcraft and the demonic that would buttress the view of many here.

The sad fact of a great deal of this is that it is sensational and is treated in such a fashion. To the more exacting point here, that of naming names in this manner is not at all biblical no matter how tortured the text's to try and prove it.

It is very serious business that is best codified by the verse;

[i]"Jesus I know and Paul I know, but who are you?"[/i]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/7/5 16:00Profile
vico
Member



Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 258


 Re:

lets remember to check everything against the Word of God. If you can't find it in the Bible, don't believe it. there is a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to the subject of spirits/demons. A lot of false information and ideas are being spread about this topic, and people are choosing to believe it without consulting the Lord and his Word. lets bring it back to the Bible, thats the only place we'll find any truth in this matter.

blessings upon all those that love our Lord in sincerity!

 2007/7/5 21:39Profile
John173
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 289
Omaha

 Re: enid...not in the spirit you think

[color=0000CC]"But we have to question, is the demon in the meth or the person who takes it?"

"It's just that when I saw this video, a matter of fact bit of news reporting, I saw beyond that, to a spiritual component, that is entirley unwholesome and with the power to "kill, steal and destroy", that's all......"[/color]

To the best of my knowledge, meth was created during WWII by nazi scientists attempting to give soldiers the ability to stay awake for longer periods of time. If this is true, is it any wonder that it turned into such a devilish plague?

Doug


_________________
Doug Fussell

 2007/7/6 1:41Profile









 forgive me Ron

I didnt mean to say that, that I percieve you lack love....wrong. Forgive me please.

Nor did I mean to start controversy. Every person sees thru eyes uniquely their own. Nor am I into or know "deliverance ministries", nor am I in abject fear of demons, etc.

I made the initial post, because there was something in that report, BEHIND the report, something foul and loathsome, something requiring prayer and intercession, on a number of levels.

I can't put my finger on it, but there is something very very wrong today, afoot in our country, that is the physical country we live in, America, and it goes much deeper than just one manifestation of sinful behavior, meth usage in this case, much deeper than "shop till you drop" soul sickness, much deeper than figures of national authority who wrap themselves in lies and deceitful behavior, both political parties, much deeper than a church hopelessly divided, some of the "sheperds" of which are men leading people astray by not only dubious "doctrine", but by the witness of their very lives and lifestyles, unmasked in front of a nation already spiraling downward with confusion and ease and the lack of Knowledge of the Gospel, it's very joy, sweetness, spiritual provision.

It seems to me, as a vast wet rotting wool blanket settling downward over this nation, coast to coast, ready to engulf and suffocate.

I hear the cry, "give us revival", and while this is my heartcry also, I also recieve at the same time a word, that He says 'no', that we don't warrant revival, that the lampstand shall be shattered, along with the ease of Zion that we here in America have lived with these many years.

I don't say that to create a controversy, I am merely testifying to the word in my heart. Pray God I'm wrong. I know that God is merciful, but sometimes He say's "enough is enough". Pray God I'm wrong, may those who tarry for revival be giving the fruit of their prayers.

 2007/7/8 9:55









 John173

Quote:
To the best of my knowledge, meth was created during WWII by nazi scientists attempting to give soldiers the ability to stay awake for longer periods of time. If this is true, is it any wonder that it turned into such a devilish plague?



yes, the Battle of the Bulge.

During the first Gulf War, many of our pilots, who had to fly LONG missions were given speed, and then post mission, given soporifics, downers, so they could get to sleep. After about thirty days of this, both air commanders and the pilots themselves didnt like what this was doing to them, so the practice was discontinued.

War is a squalid business indeed, it makes men do what they don't want to do.

Same thing with meth addicts, they do what they do not want to do. a squalid business,that.

Prayer is needed, maybe even groaning in travail of spirit.

Lord bless you

 2007/7/8 10:06
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: forgive me Ron

Hi worm, (like your name by the by)

Appreciate your further comments here. I too have much the same sentiments percolating these days, our present state both in the moral decay in the world but more profoundly that which is diseased in the Body of our Lord ...

Mentioned my earlier experiences with this particular drug but thought I would share the outcome of the second go round. Was doing some work on the apartments where I live and had just got into a great heated argument with my wife over the very thing itself. In my anger and self-justification, stewing and likely being convicted simultaneously had climbed back up on a ladder that within a few moments had decided to collapse on me, sending me butt first to the pavement from a height of about 5 or 6 feet. In the spiral apparently put out my hand to brace and broke my wrist. It was [i]painful[/i] to say the least even under the heightened sense of effect of the speed itself, giving this quasi superman like quality that can feel little pain, similar to one long constant rush of adrenaline. I ended up literally crawling back into the apartment and unto the couch where I received a great deal of unwarranted sympathy after being so cross with the one that I loved.

Take it anyway you like and I am not one to attribute everything as a 'sign' from the Lord usually but it got my attention regardless. The next day I took the last of the bindle (what the druggies keep the powder in) and before my wife, opened it and spilled the remaining contents into the carpet. That was the end, rather the beginning of the end. It did help that there was some offset by the Vicodan for the still throbbing pain of the break to subsist in lessening the great draw that speed has on it's feeding for ever more and more fuel ... the coming off or withdrawal is something almost indescribable, it is the fact of that which keeps the addict in his addiction. Too painful and agonizing and far easier to be relieved by yet another feeding, a vicious, vicious circle.

But it would still be the weeks and months up ahead where the temptations would come on with a full head of steam, acquaintances and 'friends' always at the ready, still trapped asking, looking for sources of supply, that sort of thing. But even all this was different and while a particular battle all it's own, the pot was a even longer and more protracted battle after 20 plus odd years of daily usage. That was a ultimately spiritual battle that took many, many months to fight through, not in so called self will but in the self refutation, of truly giving up on completely different lines altogether. It was long and protracted. A death all it's own, one that the Lord was victor and conqueror over the man and the nature. Much, much more could be said.

I guess I am sharing all this to come along side you here while also trying to make something of a point as well. What I perceive far too often is that well meaning Christians can get all caught up in tactics and in trying to sort things into nice, neat and tidy categories. I keep hearing Paul's words here;

Rom 16:19 For your obedience has become known to everyone, and I am full of joy for you. But I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.

Surly he didn't mean ignorant and I believe he was attempting to foster that which we do find throughout scripture when it comes to meddling with things of this nature, this spirit. We don't need to know a lot of things and can end up with all kinds of notions by borrowing from scriptures and building whole cottage industries out of them. Don't we have that nowadays? "Deliverance" ministries and "Prophetic ministries", Healing ministries" and so on.

None of these things are in any way scriptural or even were actual with the Lord or the disciples as ideals or particular efforts, certainly in manifestations where they were warranted, but not as offices and constructs.

I realize that is not what you are saying and there is that recognition here that we can often be speaking in generalities to anyone happening upon these conversations, they are just expansions of thought.

Quote:
I made the initial post, because there was something in that report, BEHIND the report, something foul and loathsome, something requiring prayer and intercession, on a number of levels.



Well said. Indeed it is true, what of the vast seemingly 'good' things out there, what is back of those as well? Not a pointed question just a furthering of the thought. Something I have been giving some musing to is the corruption of practically everything and how we can miss those because of their subtleties. As example, generally speaking the things that will alarm many Christians are the seemingly overt things. Rock music for instance, [i]It's of the devil![/i] Well you don't say! What about the sweet and sentimental, sensual aspects of Country Music or even "easy listening" ... harmless? Moreover and even greatly overlooked is Christian music itself ... but we have worn some deep grooves in that record in these parts.

You are correct, it is far deeper and more cynical and sinister than we even know.
Quote:
I hear the cry, "give us revival", and while this is my heartcry also, I also recieve at the same time a word, that He says 'no', that we don't warrant revival, that the lampstand shall be shattered, along with the ease of Zion that we here in America have lived with these many years.



Of course we don't warrant it, very much the reason we are in such need of it but I wonder if perhaps we are not seeing it as it historical is. Is revival not the great corrective? The breaking into this foul atmosphere of God Himself and always first into His own home to clean up by breaking down, bending us all to His will and desires? It must be first the church before anything else. This country and many others are reaping what they are sowing without a doubt. I am just as inclined to what this speaks as anyone;

"[i]God has revealed the coming judgment throughout the history of the human race. He revealed it in the Flood; He revealed it in the destruction of the Tower of Babel; He revealed it in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah; He revealed it in the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. And I believe He is revealing it in the wars of this twentieth century. We are making a mockery of our civilization, of our great advancement. The state of the world is a manifestation of the wrath of God. He has handed us over to evil. He is allowing us to stew in our own juice. He is withdrawing His restraining power in order to warn us to save ourselves from this “untoward generation,” in order to warn us to “flee from the wrath to come”[/i] (Matt. 3:7).

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=17838&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]Authentic Christianity[/url]

(Apologize for the continual repeating of this elsewhere, it just seems so prudent at the moment).

But I don't believe that the saints are to capitulate to a sense of abandonment either, that the gig is up and their is nothing left to do than to wait out the days. Again, not what you are forwarding perhaps at all but have heard similar sentiments expressed. If one was to really think about it, revival is the [i]last[/i] thing this nation would want it would be a full on collision with everything it holds dear both the world in it's ease and moreover the church in it's non-disturbance and comfortable stance not to offend anybody, especially itself.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/7/8 12:11Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7469
Mississippi

 Re:

Mike, I loved your testimony. It confirms a story or testimony told me by one of my clients. Now I will say up front, my understanding of the WORD is not dependant upon experiences, either my own or anothers'. All of our understanding must be based on Scripture. PERIOD.

One day at CPC, I looked out into the waiting room and saw 'something' sitting on the sofa. My initial reaction was "what is that thing?" Then I saw it was a human being, a black female. And she was so little, tiny, although I would not normally say anyone who is my height (4'11") is tiny, but these were my first impressions.

Fortunately, I saw her as a client that day, she did not come in so much for a pregnancy test as she wanted help to assist her to get off of cocaine. Now I was alone that day in the office, and we were not set up to help persons like her and these requests are rare. I told her I will see what I can do, and if you will, call me later and I will tell you something. I called everywhere, everyplace listed in our Resource manual....anyhow I should not have allowed her to leave the building...never saw her since. Learned a lesson there: next time we had one we kept her there and took her to the hospital. (in our small city the facilities to help persons like her are severely limited, especially for one who persistently violates their rules.) Now back to the girl.

Ms Jefferies was an emanciated woman, hard to call her that..she was in her 30s, if I recall, but looked ancient. Thin, terribly thin. She described to me her experience with cocaine. She seldom sleeps, is always on the move (which was very obvious to me reading her body language). She was very intelligent, insightful as to the causes and remedy of her problem or about anything else, for that matter. (And oddly enough, she is very likeable!) And she had a horrible black look on her face. Unrepentant sinners have this in their eyes: you will see it. It is just there, it is a reflection of their spiritual condition. Anyhow, she got to talking.

Ms Jefferies told me how she had been in drug rehab, had accepted the LORD and was delivered from cocaine addiction. She had no desire for it. Things were going very well for her. However, in her walk with the LORD she got careless and eventually lukewarm. When this happened, her cravings for the drug returned...in full force. She told me she knew that if she had stayed close to the LORD this would never have happened.

Ah, the power of God....

Blessings,
ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2007/7/9 8:46Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: forgive me Ron

Quote:
I didnt mean to say that, that I percieve you lack love....wrong. Forgive me please.



Forgiven and forgotten.

Quote:
I hear the cry, "give us revival", and while this is my heartcry also, I also recieve at the same time a word, that He says 'no', that we don't warrant revival, that the lampstand shall be shattered, along with the ease of Zion that we here in America have lived with these many years.



I think many in the Body have a spiritual understanding that judgment is coming, many posts hereabouts on the subject. Perhaps the very revival we seek will usher forth from said judgments for I beleieve that God's judgments here on earth are always redemptive, there is always that principle of death followed by resurrection.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2007/7/9 9:17Profile
jarona
Member



Joined: 2007/7/3
Posts: 162
The Earth

 Re: "Meth" the name of a demon.

Children of God let us not let demons keep us from understanding spiritual warfare and binding and loosing. Let us not let them put fear or doubts in our hearts as to what is true and false about binding and loosing and through that fear keep us from understanding and doing the will of God in and for our lives. Let us not say in our hearts because I do not know much about binding and loosing therefore I will not do it or seek to learn about spiritual warfare. I feel ok where I am at and I do not want to learn false things therefore I will stray from learning about spiritual warfare and binding and loosing. Indeed the casting out of demons, one of the signs Christ said would follow those who believe in His name (Mark 16:17) is being greatly neglected and is not being done in most churches. We should not allow the fear of believing something false about spiritual warfare or binding and loosing keep us from learning about and doing spiritual warfare as God wants us to. Indeed people have misconceptions about what spiritual warfare is and believe false things concerning what it is; But did Jesus not say that that the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth? (John 16:13) Therefore let us seek to understand about binding and loosing and allow the Spirit of God to show us what is true and what is not instead of hardening our hearts and allowing the fear of a false teaching to keep us from understanding and moving into the authority of Christ and using the keys to the kingdom of Heaven that Christ talked about; (And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven. Mathew 16:19) Hear the words of Christ in your hearts: "Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? Mathew 26:53) Did Christ not say that whatever we loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven? Therefore we can loose angels of God to do war with the enemy. Does the bible not say that we are seated with Christ? Therefore if we are seated with Christ we have power and authority to loose angels and spirits of God upon the earth to do war with the enemy. O, if you and I could see the mighty angels in Heaven with there swords waiting to do battle whenever our faith demands it, how glorious that would be. Let us seek the wisdom of the Most High that we might bind and loose and destroy the works of the devil! It says in Psalms 104:4 that God makes His angels spirits. If Christ has given us the keys to the kingdom of Heaven and has declared in His Word that He could have had the Father sendd twelve legions of angels to help Him, can we not do the same if we are seated with Christ in the Heavenlies. Children of God who speak of the prayer closet or prayer on this site, pray and seek the wisdom of God concerning your rights in being able to bind and loose that you may uproot the works of the enemy. We can loose angels from Heaven to do war with the enemy upon this earth. I plead with you through this message do not harden your hearts but seek the Lord that you may use the keys to the kingdom of Heaven! Do not allow the enemy to keep you from trying to understand and to get you to look down upon deliverance ministers; but seek God and understand that we can loose Heaven upon the earth in Christs' name!


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Jaron

 2007/7/9 20:24Profile





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