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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Exposing Bad Exposition: Answering Opposition to True Holiness

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HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Heb 12:14 "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:"


38. agiasmov hagiasmos, hag-ee-as-mos'



from 37; properly, purification, i.e. (the state) purity; concretely (by Hebraism) a purifier:--holiness, sanctification.


_________________
Jordan

 2007/6/25 19:19Profile









 Re:

Giancarlo,

Correct me if I'm wrong. You said you have not arrived at this state (sinless). So if you died today you would go to hell as an apostate. Right?

If so...what are you doing moderating these forums or speaking on anything as one who is currently hell bound?

(If I'm misunderstand what you are saying please forgive me).

~sscott

 2007/6/25 19:32
Forevidence
Member



Joined: 2004/7/29
Posts: 711
Riverside

 Re:

Quote:

sscott wrote:
Giancarlo,

Correct me if I'm wrong. You said you have not arrived at this state (sinless). So if you died today you would go to hell as an apostate. Right?

If so...what are you doing moderating these forums or speaking on anything as one who is currently hell bound?

(If I'm misunderstand what you are saying please forgive me).

~sscott



Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, [b]work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.[/b]
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


_________________
Giancarlo

 2007/6/25 19:53Profile
andres
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville

 Re:

“If the Apostle John was stating that he too was in sin, then indwelling sin has become the inspiration of this text and not the Holy Ghost. Holy men wrote the Holy Scriptures! Not unholy prideful men struggling with sin who called themselves apostles. Such ministers would be ministers of so called righteousness, when they are nothing but devils in a false light. No the scripture says, “holy” men!” By G.A. Jarquin


Moses – writer of the 1st 5 books of the bible – was kept out of the promise land because of he did not believe and hallow God’s name. Numbers20:11-12

David- writer of most of the Psalms- committed adultery, murder, took a census on account of being tempted by the devil, and moved the ark of God wrongly, which caused a man to die.

Solomon- writer of proverbs. Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes- allowed other gods to be worshipped in Israel, including molech, in which, children were sacrificed to that idol.

Peter- writer of 1st and 2nd Peter- “did not walk uprightly according to the truth of the gospel” Galatians 2:11-14

Paul- writer of most the new testament- says “For I know that in me ( that is in my flesh ) dwelleth no good thing..” Rom 7:18

.. so are these writers “devils” because they had sinned or had sin in the after they were called by God? G.A. Jarquin claim is as wrong as wrong can be! “ God uses the weak things of the world to confound the wise.” If God had to wait for men to be perfect so they could write the Holy Bible , we would have nothing to read.. and would still be waiting…..

love andy


_________________
andy

 2007/6/25 19:57Profile









 Re:

Hey Giancarlo,

I know we are to all work out our own salvation, but that doesn't answer my questions posed to you.

[b]Correct me if I'm wrong. You said you have not arrived at this state (sinless). So if you died today you would go to hell as an apostate. Right?[/b]

 2007/6/26 1:13









 Re: Spurgeon

I have never heard a "life after death" experience that I've believed with the exception of just one.
It was of an unknown Pastor somewhere, quite a few years ago.
He didn't broadcast his big experience that much, but I just happened upon him being interviewed on some Christian radio program many years ago.

He had been in the Ministry for 30 years at that time and somehow he died at the Hospital.

He saw the LORD and HE told him, that his 30 years of work had been "in the strength of his own flesh". And that the Lord would not keep him just yet in Heaven, but would allow him to go back and "try again" - Ha.

You could feel the annoiting on him as he spoke of this by his extreme humility and that he chose to keep this experience as low key as possible and yet get this warning out to us.

What made me think of this Testimony of his, strangely enough, was this morning's devotional.

[b]Tuesday, June 26, 2007
This Morning's Meditation
http://www.spurgeon.org/morn_eve/this_morning.cgi
C. H. Spurgeon


"Art thou become like unto us?"—Isaiah 14:10.[/b]
WHAT must be the apostate professor's doom when his naked soul appears before God? How will he bear that voice, "Depart, ye cursed; thou hast rejected me, and I reject thee; thou hast played the harlot, and departed from Me: I also have banished thee for ever from my presence, and will not have mercy upon thee." What will be this wretch's shame at the last great day when, before assembled multitudes, the apostate shall be unmasked? See the profane, and sinners who never professed religion, lifting themselves up from their beds of fire to point at him. "There he is," says one, "will he preach the gospel in hell?" "There he is," says another, "he rebuked me for cursing, and was a hypocrite himself!" "Aha!" says another, "here comes a psalm-singing Methodist—one who was always at his meeting; he is the man who boasted of his being sure of everlasting life; and here he is!" No greater eagerness will ever be seen among Satanic tormentors, than in that day when devils drag the hypocrite's soul down to perdition. Bunyan pictures this with massive but awful grandeur of poetry when he speaks of the back-way to hell. Seven devils bound the wretch with nine cords, and dragged him from the road to heaven, in which he had professed to walk, and thrust him through the back-door into hell. Mind that back-way to hell, professors! "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith." Look well to your state; see whether you be in Christ or not. It is the easiest thing in the world to give a lenient verdict when oneself is to be tried; but O, be just and true here. Be just to all, but be rigorous to yourself. Remember if it be not a rock on which you build, when the house shall fall, great will be the fall of it. O may the Lord give you sincerity, constancy, and firmness; and in no day, however evil, may you be led to turn aside.



___________________________________________________________________

Please note: The below Devotional material is taken from “Morning and Evening,” written by C.H. Spurgeon, revised and updated by Alistair Begg. Can be found at www.truthforlife.org and also received daily by email.

[b]Tuesday, June 26, 2007

YOU HAVE BECOME LIKE US![/b]
Isaiah 14:10 What must be the apostate professor's doom when his naked soul appears before God? How will he bear to hear that voice telling him that he is banished forever from His presence and that he will not be the recipient of mercy? "Depart from Me, you cursed; you have rejected knowledge, and I reject you." What will be this wretch's shame at the last great day when, before the assembled crowds, the apostate shall be unmasked? See the profane, and sinners who never professed faith, lifting themselves up from their beds of fire to point at him. "There he is," says one; "will he preach the gospel in hell?" "There he is," says another; "he rebuked me for cursing and was a hypocrite himself!" "Aha!" says another; "here comes a psalm-singing Methodist--one who was always at his meeting; he is the man who boasted of his being sure of everlasting life, and here he is!" No greater eagerness will ever be seen among satanic tormentors than in that day when devils drag the hypocrite's soul down to perdition. Bunyan pictures this with massive but awful grandeur of poetry when he speaks of the back way to hell. Seven devils bound the wretch with nine cords and dragged him from the road to heaven, in which he had professed to walk, and thrust him through the back door into hell. Watch out for that back way to hell, professors! "Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith."1 Pay attention to your condition, and see whether you are in Christ or not. It is the easiest thing in the world to give high marks when grading your own paper. Be honest and fair. Be gracious to all, but be rigorous with yourself. Remember, if you are not building on the rock, your house will collapse. May the Lord give you sincerity, constancy, and firmness; and in no day, however evil, may you be led to turn aside.
2 Corinthians 13:5


LORD, have mercy on Your people.

 2007/6/26 13:20









 Re:

Quote:
Annie said:

...He had been in the Ministry for 30 years at that time...

He saw the LORD and HE told him, that his 30 years of work had been [i][b]"in the strength of his own flesh"[/b][/i].

This to me is the key to the whole question.

The root of sin doesn't lie in failing to become perfect, (whatever "perfect" actually means,)or attaining some distant goal of holiness - even with the Lord's help.

Stil less is it in seeing others and looking to them as ones who have so attained. (I found it deeply disturbing, when Giancarlo said that).

I believe in holiness, I believe in perfection -JESUS' holiness and perfection in me. I believe in God's power to transform our lives into His image, but not quite as Giancarlo seems to see it - which has to lead to either pride or despair, as I said, and especially to self-striving.

Th root of sin lies in doing our own thing - including striving for OUR OWN holiness - not failing to pass some test or attain His perfect standard!

The Tree that was Adam's downfall wasn't the tree of [i]evil[/i], but the tree of the [i][b]knowledge of good [u]and[/u] evil[/b][/i]

I no longer fear being shut out of heaven because of not attaining. What i fear is insulting the Lord's work on the Cross by striving to attain my own holiness. As the pastor that Annie spoke of, saw that he had been doing.

Brother Giancarlo, I would very much like your thoughts on these things that I and others have posted.

Quoting Scripture alone doesn't give an answer, because it is the [i]interpretation[/i] of the Word in this particular subject that is in question not the Word as such.

I will however quote one Scripture, but whether it speaks the same way to others as it spoke to me i have no idea!

Philippians 3:2-7 (my emphasis)
[color=000099]Though I might also have [i]confidence in the flesh[/i]. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

Phl 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, [of] the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Phl 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; [i][b][u]touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless[/u][/b][/i].

Phl 3:7 [i][b]But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ[/b][/i].
[/color]

Thank you

In Him

Jeannette

 2007/6/26 15:05









 Re:

Andrew wrote...

I really need a direct answer to my question, Giancarlo, because it is really at the heart of this whole dispute. We need you to answer this yourself, if possible, rather than just posting Scriptures without comment.

I am very sorry to be so blunt about it, but this point is so important that we really need a direct reply in your own words. Here is the question again-


JIM'S QUESTION ASKED TO GIANCARLO:
"Are you saying that any saint (born again, living without any known sin in there life, perfecting holiness) who dies without becoming "sinlessy perfect" is a failed work of Christ?"

GIANCARLO's REPLY:
"Well, a person who dies in sin and unsanctifed would die as an apostate and a Rebel against God...."

WELL THEN - MY QUESTION TO GIANCARLO:
Does that mean if you personally are not sanctified in this way by the end of your life,
Giancarlo, then you will go to hell?

Are you saying you would be an apostate and a
rebel against God?

-Andrew.

 2007/6/27 8:47









 Re:

Still waiting for an answer to my question as well:


Hey Giancarlo,

I know we are to all work out our own salvation, but that doesn't answer my questions posed to you.

[b]Correct me if I'm wrong. You said you have not arrived at this state (sinless). So if you died today you would go to hell as an apostate. Right?[/b]

 2007/6/27 10:44
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

how can God command me to keep his commandments when he know i do not have that ability?

i do believe we can keep his commandments,but so many say we cant.... or I'm i missing something?

and what does this verse mean if not exactly what it says?

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,



_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/6/27 10:45Profile





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