Thank you. Well, it was clear that the word "use" was in many posts other than "just" mine in this thread and used in the same text. But, since I am new here I can understand the question.
I just pointed out in my last post that I can honestly admit that I have not read the entire thread nor all the subjects posted. I will also add that I doubt that I have the time to read all the subjects posted. However, I am sure or would be grateful for better use of words, that if I happen to post on a subject and it has been mentioned before, that someone will be so kind to point that out to me and where. I will then attempt to go back and read what was shared on that subject before posting.
Please be patient with me as I get to know those that share on this forum. It is very clear based on all that I have read so far, that there are many mature saints in the Lord here.
All For His Glory,
| 2004/4/23 9:59||Profile|
Quote:It's not a problem, all I said was:
Keith in all honesty, I will admit that I did not read the "entire" thread, therefore I went back to read "some" of what I had not read. I will be careful to post next time prematurely and make sure I have read all that posted.
Quote:I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with jumping in, Lord knows I've probably done it more than I ought have before.
But I'm starting to feel like those coming into the discussion aren't reading the previous posts (which is fine, that's a lot of reading to expect), so allow me to reiterate:
It does help avoid repetition if we read the previous posts, though. Also, it's a bit frustrating to see an objection, answer that objection, see little if any acknowledgement (positive or negative) of your answer, and see the same objection brought back up several times later by people seemingly unaware of the previous exchange.
Hmm, that might serve as a summary of modern politics.
So carefulness in reading before posting is appreciated, but it doesn't actually bother me if you don't.
| 2004/4/23 10:04||Profile|
Thank you for the clarity. I can understand the frustration and should have realized that I may be sharing something that was already brought up and settled on. My zeal just got the best of me. (hand over mouth).
I appreciate your advice and will try real hard to be careful as I post in the future.
| 2004/4/23 10:27||Profile|
| Re: women|
The Lord has really been trying to teach me some things in this area of men/women in the church. When I say church, I do not mean a church building, I mean His church- the bride, the body of Christ- His called out ones. Because of some of my giftings in the prophetic, wisdom and knowledge- and even in dreams- I have had a hard time trying to find my "place" or purpose as a woman. I think the hardest thing to get past, as a girl is the equality in God's and human's eyes. When most discuss women and their positions the woman is many times put in a lower position or lower class as a man. When this is not the case in any way. The Lord IS no respecter of persons and see's a women and a man (spiritually) the same. He loves them the same. He doesn't see a man as being "better" than a woman or a woman better than a man. To Him all humans are called "man" (human). He would never create people and put them in classes. He would never show preferential treatment to anyone based on things that they cannot change.
It is obvious that when he made man, man was not enough on His own. So man was lacking. Man is made complete when He is united with a woman. (I am not saying that all men have to be married) but that is the plan from the garden. It takes both a man and a woman to be complete for God. God possess all the qualities he put in man and woman. The key here is to look at the role He made for Eve and - in succession, other women. She was created as a "helper" to him. She completes man. What I see here is that even though we are equal in God's eyes and equal spiritually speaking- here on earth, our roles are different. I still think the Holy Spirit analogy is one of the best I have heard. It has really changed my thinking on my "purpose". I can see where in my heart of hearts, I am made to be a comforter, a helper , a supporter, a vessel of gentleness and peace, a teacher of wisdom- even if it is unseen - or whether it is seen.
This has been very hard to come to grips with. I think mostly because when men speak of a women being more "in the background" or behind the scenes, we think it means less important or less worthy. When that is not the case. To be content with being behind the scenes (knowing that you have much wisdom to give) and letting the Lord be in control of "how you give out the wisdom"- whether through your husband, your children, a womens' study, or whatever- is much harder to be "unknown". It is much hardr to let others get the credit. Only a very strong woman can do this. Only a stong woman has the selflessness to give of herself in this way. To lay down her own life, her own dreams, her own perogatives, her own wishes, her own rights- for the benefit of others and in obedience to the Lord.
I am still lacking in words as to what all I'd like to say because the Lord is still in the process of revealing some of these things to me. Because of being hurt by men (emotionally, mentally), it is hard for many women to want to accept putting themselves in the position to be this vulnerable. To give up their rights to be "somebody" important in the eyes of the public. But in reality, they ARE somebody very, very important in God's eyes and in other's eyes who they have no idea is watching. It is the culture today, as well as the enemy that whispers to us that we need to show that we are somebody, that we have to prove that we are worth something, that we are worthy to be acknowledged for this or that. But if we are willing to die to self, then we will give up that right.
Even now as I type this, my heart goes right back to that question- why do I have to give up these rights and not the men? I am not responsible for them I am only responsible for me and how I obey the Lord. It is very esy to say-"that is not fair, we have so much giving up to do". Why not men? It is true that all men are called to give up their rights and their "self" and surrender all. And I hope and pray that many do- for even the benefit of their wives, and children who watch and learn by example. But again, I am only accountable for myself not for other men.
Some verses that have really hit me about this whole thing don't all have to do with the men/women debate at all. They have to do with my accountability.
" But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." Mat. 12:36-37
Romans 14 and part of 15 talks about receiving ones who are weaker in the faith and not causing them to stumble. And about pleasing others for the glory of God and not ourselves.
Also the Lord gave me a dream that had something to do with his heart (my husband's) and I was busy preparing things for him so that he could be looked upon as important because of his job. I had no idea what it was until two days ago I came across the verses in Proverbs 31:10-11 Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. The HEART of her husband safely trusts her; So he will have no lack of gain.
This has all been very hard to put in perspective because of my spiritual giftings. How can putting my husbands needs first (support, comfort, listening ear, wise counsel about his job, etc...) be in line with these gifts that are unique and seem important in the body of Christ. But what I have realized is that I am first called to be his wife before I am called to minister to the body. I am called to be a mother before I am called to minister to the body. There will be many opportunities to get the Lord's word out , whether it be through my husband, my children (even their lives), through my website, through wise counsel for anyone who comes to me.
I have also realized that the Lord withdrew His presence from me as my "First Love" because now that I know how to have this love relationship with the Lord that I didn't have before two years ago- He now wants me to learn to love Dan as my first love again- since he is the head of our family as Christ is the head of the church. I see this now. I was loving Christ as my first love- which was wonderful, but I was not loving my husband as I loved Christ. And if I should love any one like Christ -it should be my husband who is the head (as Christ is).
Sorry this is so long- but i am putting my thoughts and heart down here and it is all still coming to me. I believe that I will be a teacher of the word (prophetic and wisdom) but I know I have been called in the long run to minister to women. It is hard for me to admit that because I feel that men need much work too - but that is not my responsibility. I pray that God rasies up some very strong holy men who will do what I'd like to do- which is call all people to surrender and holiness. Yes, there may be many men who are affected by my words and teachings- which I hope this will be. Maybe in an indirect way, maybe directly. But that will not be my focus- to reach men.
When you see such a lack of good teachers of righteousness and holiness it is hard to let that go. You just want to get to everyone. That zeal starts to get a hold of you (me). But realizing that reaching all people is not purpose or responsibility- takes much pressure off of me and gives me more focus. I am responsible with obeying the Lord and that starts with "first things first".
These words and thoughts are still only in the processing stage. I don't know about other women, but I do know about me. Yes, I have some wonderful giftings but I am willing to lay them down (or at least keep them in perspective for now) for the building up of those who are closest to me - my husband and my kids. Who knows, maybe the only reason I have some of these gifts is because one of my children will be used very greatly of the Lord and my job is to prepare them. Only God knows.
Walking with Him, Chanin
| 2004/4/23 12:04||Profile|
Chanin, Your post is interesting,part of it says the following
I think the hardest thing to get past, as a girl is the equality in God's and human's eyes. When most discuss women and their positions the woman is many times put in a lower position or lower class as a man.
Yhis is a shame,firstly that you have experienced restriction through maybe over- bearance from men.This has given your view of roles as beneath and above so to speak.
The great truth is , that God has restored the equel spiritual standing before and in him.This has been achieved by Jesus,the seconed Adam.
Complementing this is that practical roles have not changed in direction.In Him all things are made new,Correct authority, Correct relationship(s),Fear has been taken away.
My wife tells me that she now has security in her role and in the church as well.Does this mean The Lord does not use her,of course not.I guess in essance the matter is of church government and headship.Carnel man is so threatened by all these discriptive words.The spiritual man/woman is not as these have been refined and made pure as in the begining
I do hope this makes some sense!
Karen,Thanks for your post I mis-timed my last with yours :-)
| 2004/4/23 16:35||Profile|
Chanin, thank you for the wonderful post. I got typing a response but realized it might take a lot of time to address it properly, so I wanted to thank you first.
I assure you the internal striving and grieving and grinding are on both sides, among the true disciples.
Again you've made me confident that you have cast yourself into the same Consuming Fire as I have.
| 2004/4/23 16:50||Profile|
I asked our church's youth pastor what he thought of the issue. He said, "Behind every great minister of the Gospel, there is a loudmouth husband who takes all the credit."
| 2004/4/24 1:23||Profile|
I can truly feel your heart in this matter. Misguided men down thru time have read Paul's letters according to the carnel mind and not in the mind in which Christ intended. My Dad used to call my dear Mother stupid to keep her from being more than he was. For years I have been of that mindset that a woman ought not teach, let alone preach. But it was a woman teacher whom I clung to in Sunday School and heard the message of Christ, it was her dedication and love which moved me. It was my Mothers love for the LORD that taught me a few spiritual principles to observe. As time went on I grew cold to the ways of the LORD, all of the "killer ordinances" that our LORD nailed to the cross and of and what Paul, Peter, James and the rest wrote I became steadfastly obstinate. The LORD removed the veil and showed me many things thru trials and tribulations and a whole lot of heartache and despair that without His Spirit's quickening the Word is useless. That word became alive in my spirit and thru much more difficulty He enabled me to know His true intentions. Oh the grace of our LORD Jesus Christ is such a wonderful force. I don't know if I have any Wisdom, knowledge or understanding, but what I do know, His work in me is His work and not my own. I have many failings, and a couple of bondages, but the LORD is faithful to bring His word to fruition. Keep up the openess and writings. Karl
| 2004/8/16 1:34|
Let the woman learn...
| 2004/8/18 8:43||Profile|
Washington st. u.S. A.
Blessed be the lord our God who teaches."Let God be true and every man a lier"His words are clear for those who are looking for his order and not trying to find our own order. I try to read thinking it's his word to me and I must follow, he is god and knows the end from the begining. As a warrior of heaven I must follow orders from on high, knowing he is in command. many a day I thank him for being in the place that is his, for he payed for it with his Blood. God Bless and lets follow his orders Brother Raven
| 2004/8/18 9:20||Profile|