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LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear david,

what krispy is saying i beileve is that if faith healers just speak it and it happens, then why do things like death, cancer, etc happen to them.. shouldn't they still be alive, healthy, wealthy and prosperous in everything physical..

it may be a new thing to be here, but i believe that some things will open your eyes and force you to either look at the scriptures or hide behind a "well that's not what i have always been taught so i don't want to hear it" kind of mentality..

so just wanted to write you and tell you these things..by the way, i was raised in a pentecostal "church" all my life, so i'm not baptist, just a believer in Christ..

 2007/6/21 17:37Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

when Jesus said "greater worrks than these shall you do" what was he talking about?
also Jesus said "but tarry in Jerusaalem untill you are endued with power"and......."they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover,"
It make no difference if everone on thee face of the planet drops the ball.
When the King comes I better be bearing fruit. Jesus said these signs shall follow those that believe.
I dont know about others but that includes me.
......David

 2007/6/21 17:54Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear psalm1,

the way i understand it is that Jesus was saying that we will be doing greater (more in quantity) miracles than Him.. He healed the sick, made the blind to see, raised the dead and freed people from the bondage of satan and translated them to the kingdom of light.. what can we possibly do that's better than that??

if someone has a better understanding of that, please write and let us know..

the disciples had to wait and tarry until the Holy Spirit would come down upon them, during the feast of pentecost..

but you're right in this, we better be doing the Father's will when He comes back..like Christ said "i need to be about the Father's business"

 2007/6/21 23:05Profile









 Re:

David, ya know, to be honest with you... I generally have no idea what denominations people here belong to. I dont care. There is a lot of talk these days about unity among believers... well, welcome to SI... where there is true unity, and never any talk about what denomonation we each belong to.

See... when I got saved in the mid 1990's we started attending a WOF church in Knoxville, TN. My wife and I didnt know anything about scripture, or how to be Christians, etc. All I knew was God had forgiven me for years of wretchedness.

While in that church, instead of reading the Bible for myself and letting God teach me... I depended on preachers and teachers to tell me what God's Word said. I never read my Bible without some book written by Copeland or Hagin or someone else.

Fast forward about 4 years, I began to question some of the inconsistancies I was hearing and reading by these preachers. An old man in his 90's who had been walking with the Lord since he was a kid had become a friend of mine. I used to sit at Waffle House some mornings and drink coffee and talk to him. I explained the frustration I was having with some of the teachings I was under... and he told me the best advice anyone has ever given me...

He told me to turn off the TV, put the books away, tune out the preachers and teachers for a season... and go into the desert with only the Word of God to sustain me... and it would be there that God would begin to teach me HIS Word... without all the filters, slants & spins.

So thats what I did. For about a year I read no books other than the Bible, I listened to no preachers other than at church... and even then I would spend most of the service reading my Bible and not really listening... I turned off Copeland and Hinn... etc...

At the end of the year... we left the WOF / Charismatic movement never to return.

And to this day thats how I try to approach any subject... I dont care what John Calvin had to say, or Zac Poonen, or Keith Green, or even Matthew Henry... I am only concerned with what the Word of God has to say. Now, I love Matthew Henry and use his commentary most of the time... but there are things in there that I dont agree with 100%.

To use a football term... our first "go to guy" should be the Holy Spirit. He will be our teacher IF we will let Him. But too many times we are not willing to do that. We'd rather "heap upon" ourselves teachers, as scripture says.

It's interesting that Paul warned so much about false teachers. It's interesting that one of the signs of the last times is that people will "heap upon" themselves teachers... teachers... teachers... (of course, scripture is referring to false teachers).

What is one the biggest hallmarks of the WOF / Chrismatic movement? There is no lack of teachers. There are so many WOF teachers it amazes me that there is anyone left to listen to them.

So to get back to the "what is this? A baptist forum?" question... my answer is this... "no".

I'm not a part of any denomination. Actually, we have a network of house churches.... with no name. We're just a small group of believers who gather together to study His Word and be a family.

There are people here that go to a particular church with a name... but that seems to never come up here. I think most of us are disciples of Jesus Christ. Period. Bible believers.

And most of us here have come to our theologies by private study, and not necessarily because it's been ingrained in us by a church. You'll find that the folks on this forum are extremely serious about their relationship with God.

This is not a forum for a novice. Someone who isnt serious about holiness... who doesnt want to be challenged and grow...

So what you have run into here are true followers of Christ, who do count the cost and consider it all joy...

So join us, wont you? Or as Petra said back in 1977... "Come and join us in the sunlight... you've been sittin' in the shade too long... Come and drink from the well that never runs dry..."

Krispy

 2007/6/22 8:21
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:

and go into the desert with only the Word of God to sustain me... and it would be there that God would begin to teach me HIS Word



that is good advice.


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/6/22 8:39Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Krispy, You seem to be the man everyone looks up to here. So let me ask you a question.[maybe several if you have the time].
Was wigglesworth a man of God or a false teacher?
Did wiggleswworth have a proven ministry.
Do you read any books such as oswald chambers or john Lake, or Dowie?
do you think anyone that moves in the "gifts" is a phoney?
Are you reaching for anything spiritually or do you feel as though you have peaked out?
I am not being ugly orr sarcastic.[ I ssay that because i dont know how this comes across]
.......David

 2007/6/22 9:19Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Krispy, You seem to be the man everyone looks up to here



Ha! Thats good stuff brother David! I would replace "looks up to" with "puts up with" though...

Seriously though, I thank God for having a place like SI to fellowship with. Much love krispy.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/6/22 9:34









 Re:

Quote:
Krispy, You seem to be the man everyone looks up to here.



Oh, I hope not! If I'm all anyone here has to look up to, they certainly are a pitiful lot!

If you want to meet someone that everyone here should look up to, go converse with Philologos. Now there is a man at whom we can sit at his feet and learn. Paul West is another one. I'm just a redneck mountain boy who sometimes doesnt know when to be quiet.

Quote:
Was wigglesworth a man of God or a false teacher?



I'll be honest with you, I havent read a lot of Smith Wigglesworth. Even if I had, and found myself in disagreement with him... it's not for me to decide if he is saved or not. Anyone who has been here for very long knows that I refuse to sit in judgement of even Benny Hinn's salvation. I will weigh and judge what he teaches, and some of his antics... but not his heart. No man knows another man's heart.

Quote:
Do you read any books such as oswald chambers or john Lake, or Dowie?



I have... but give me Charles Spurgeon anyday.

Quote:
do you think anyone that moves in the "gifts" is a phoney?



Absoltutely not... I do believe the gifts are active today, but I also believe that they are greatly abused. I believe in the gift of tongues, but I reject the notion that there is some "heavenly prayer language". Scripture never teaches that. I believe tongues are an earthly language that you dont know... as it shows in Acts. I believe tongues is mainly operational in the mission fields. I think most of what passes for tongues in American churches is not real, but I also believe you can practice "unreal" tongues and still be saved too.

I believe you recieve the Spirit at the moment you are saved. If you dont have the Spirit, you are not saved. I dont believe tongues is the initial evidence of the indwelling Spirit... I believe salvation is. I believe exhibiting the "fruits of the Spirit" is the evidence.

Quote:
Are you reaching for anything spiritually or do you feel as though you have peaked out?



Evidence that I have not peaked out is that I am still breathing. We "peak out" when we walk thru those gates of splendor... and we keep on peaking for eternity.

I have so far to go, brother, that it's overwhelming. I fail Him daily. I fail others daily. Oh wretched man that I am...

His grace is sufficient for me. It's all I need.

If I speak about anything with authority, it is His authority, not mine. He's just blessed (...maybe cursed) me with a Type 'A' personality.

Krispy

 2007/6/22 10:43









 Re:

An earlier post made mention about something Joyce Meyer wrote. It sounds very much like this teaching. Many things may sound good, but is it? We have the Holy Spirit in us to help us discern these counterfit teachers that even Jesus said, Even the Elect will be deceived IF IT WERE POSSIBLE. Example: Mormons use all the same lingo as Born Again Christians,: washed in the blood, Born Again, filled witht he Holy Spirit etc, etc, but when going deeper into the definition of what they mean, it is not the same.

Thought this may interest you as well as educate. We are living in dangerous times of counterfit.

With Love
Katy-did

The Word-Faith / Charismatic Movement theology denies many clear Bible teachings. For example:

It denies the doctrine that the atonement was made by Christ’s death and blood and that it was finished on the cross (Jn. 19:30; Rom. 3:25; 5:9; Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14; Heb. 9:22).

They are taught that Christ’s physical death did not remove sin. Rather, it was Christ’s alleged spiritual death and his alleged struggles in hell that removed sin. Hagin taught that Christ was sent to hell after His death on the cross and there he struggled against Satan and the demons and by his victory over them he was born again. This is heresy of the greatest sort. The Bible plainly states that we are redeemed by Christ’s death and blood (Acts 20:28; Heb. 9:14; 10:10). The atonement was finished on the cross. When Christ dismissed His spirit from his body, He cried, “It is finished” (John 19:30). The Lord Jesus Christ was not born again; He was never lost. He bore our sin, but He was never a sinner. He was never tormented in hell by Satan and the demons. He never assumed a satanic nature. Nowhere, in fact, does the Bible say that Satan is in hell or that he has any influence in hell. One happy day in the future he will be bound for 1,000 years in the bottomless pit (Rev. 20:1-3) and ultimately he will be cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:10), but nowhere does the Bible say that Satan is the master of hell.


It denies the doctrine that Jesus Christ is the unique and eternal Son of God (1 Tim. 6:15-16).

It denies the doctrine that Jesus was the “firstborn from the dead,” referring to His resurrection, promoting rather that He was born again (Col. 1:18).

It denies the doctrine that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God (Jn. 1:14, 18; 3:16, 18; 1 Jn. 4:9). If the believer could be anything like equal to Jesus He would cease to be the ONLY begotten Son of God.

It denies the doctrine that Jesus Christ alone is the creator of all things (Jn. 1:3; Col. 1:16; Rev. 4:11), which means the believer is capable of creating things.

[b][color=FF0000]They believe in *faith in faith*, not faith in Jesus Christ. They believe they can speak anything they want into being, new car, money etc, etc, It's called the power of positive thinking, AKA The New Age movement. [/color][/b]

It denies the doctrine that Jesus was poor (2 Cor. 8:9).

It denies the doctrine that the believer is to flee from the lust for riches and is to be content with such things as he has (Phil. 4:11-13; 1 Tim. 6:8-11; Heb. 13:5-6).

It denies the doctrine that the lust for miracles is the mark of the ungodly (Mat. 12:39; 16:4).

It denies the doctrine that enduring faith is just as real as overcoming faith (Heb. 11:32-38).

It denies the doctrine that faith is based strictly on the Word of God rather than upon personal experiences revelations and miracles (Rom. 10:17).

It denies (in practice, at least) the doctrine that the Scripture is a more sure word of prophecy than any vision or supernatural experience (2 Pet. 1:16-21).

It denies the doctrine that the apostles were unique and their miracles were signs of their apostleship (2 Cor. 12:12).

It denies the doctrine that God does not always heal sicknesses (2 Cor. 12:7-10; 1 Tim. 5:23; 2 Tim. 4:20).


Love in Christ
Katy-did

 2007/6/24 10:39
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Im just thankful that "it denies" no. 10 carries a disclaimer.

 2007/6/24 10:53Profile





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