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 Re:

David... when you type in bold it is generally interpreted as yelling. Is that how you believe you should approach a topic like this? By getting mad and yelling? If so... how immature.

There are particular doctrines found among Baptists, Presbytarians, etc that I do not agree with... but there is a huge difference between disagreeing on teachings concerning something like the Rapture, and someone (like Joyce Meyer) who teaches a different Jesus than the one found in scripture.

Do we follow the Jesus of scripture who had no place to lay His head? Who was despised by the world? Who told the rich young ruler to sell all he had because Jesus knew that was where the man's heart was? Who did not seek riches and accolades?

Do we follow the Jesus who told us to "count the cost", "take up your cross" and also warned us that if the world hated Him, it would hate us as well?

Or do we follow the "Santa Claus" Jesus of the WOF'ers? The Jesus who heals [i]everyone[/i] who has enough faith... the Jesus who showers cars and houses on His followers who have enough faith... etc etc.

It seems strange to me that Paul apparently didnt have enough faith. He had some ailment that He asked the Lord to remove from him 3 times, and the Lord said "no". Paul was beaten, stoned, whipped, driven out, ship wrecked, cheated, lied about... and the Lord had two things to say to him... first: "My grace is [b]sufficient[/b] for you", and second: "Well done, thou good and faithful servent."

I've never heard Kenneth Copeland explain that one to me. According to their teaching Paul should have been the wealthiest person in the world... and should be still alive today because he would have never been sick.

I'd like someone to explain to me why Kathryn Kuhlman died of cancer at a relatively young age.

I'd also like to know why there is not [b]one[/b] medically documented case of an actual healing that has taken place by God thru Benny Hinn or Kathryn Kuhlman or Kenneth Hagin... even tho they claim themselves to have healed hundreds of thousands.

Reinhardt Bonnke claims to have raised a man from Africa from the dead. Really? Why cant he bring that man forward and proove his claims? Why do I need to just take his word for it? Why hasnt he ever addressed the legitimate questions that many discernment ministers have raised concerning this story... and the so-called "facts" surrounding it? Why has he been fairly silent about it since HBO did an expose on faith healers (including Bonnke) in 2001... if HBO was wrong Bonnke could have easily proven it, and sued them... but didnt.

If Bonnke raised this man from the dead (which he didnt), then why didnt he raise up those who have died at his own crusades in Africa due to heat and being trampled? Where is God in that?

Some of the godliest people I've ever met have been dirt poor. I've watched several friends in the past couple years die from cancer in their 40's... loving the Lord, and knowing if it was [b]His will[/b] He would heal them, but died knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that their healing was waiting on the other side. Not here on earth.

I watched a friend who was desperate for his wife to recover from cancer drag her all the way to a Benny Hinn crusade in Flordia only to be left out in the street because too many tickets were sold. Here she was sitting in the sun and the heat, 3 or 4 weeks left to live... watching well dressed healthy people walk on by as they went into the "crusade". Her husband begged the "ministry" people to let her in without him just so she could "receive her healing"... and they turned her away... even tho they had been sold tickets prior to going there.

Where is Jesus in that? When did Jesus ever turn anyone away?

This happened about a year after I was so disgusted with the lies and deception I had been taught as a new believer... so I already knew my friends were wasting their time going down there. But we supported them, knowing her husband didnt want to lose her and was willing to do all it he could.

I sat with him a month later as she passed from this tired old life into a new life of splendor.

All the WOF'ers have to offer anyone are lies, deceit, disappointment and failure... and a depleted checking account.

So you can yell and scream all you want on this forum. I suppose if you cant scripturally support this thing you believe in, then getting mad and telling everyone off is your best option.

I would hope that you're willing to look into this stuff yourself and see if what we're telling you is true or not.

By the way, not one of us has attacked Joyce Meyer, or anyone else, on a personal level. So you can stop saying we did that... it's simply not true.

Krispy

 2007/6/21 11:15
vsuarez
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 52


 Re:

Quote:

psalm1 wrote:
vsuares,
If i understand you correctly then I have to say that the baptists and the lutherans and the presbryterians are of the devil also because they all HAVE FALSE DOCTRINE.
i DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ANYONE ON SI POINTING OUT FALE DOCTRINE. I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH [NOW LETS MOVE IN FOR THEE KILL]
AND......THIS WOMAN IS A DEVIL
AND......LETS TRASH THIS WOMAN
.........DAVID





Brother David,

With all due respect, I think you are missing the point. I am not calling into question her as a person. It is what she is "teaching" that is being challenged. And to make a correction, I did not call nor intimate that she is a devil. Nevertheless, the teachings she is propagating and promoting are from demonic/seducing spirits. The fact is that anyone of us can be deceived by a seducing spirit if we are not on-guard. We can all give our mind over to those spirits if we are not grounded and settled in the truth. In fact, when Jesus said beware of false prophets, he was essentially saying, hold your mind back from their teachings.

David, as bearers and messengers of the New Covenant, we have a serious and sober responsibility to defend the faith once delivered to us by the apostles and prophets. This issue is much greater than any one person, i.e. Joyce Meyer's, Creflo, Copeland, etc. These people are only avenues for false doctrine.

Our warfare is not actually with them. I know EXACTLY who my enemy is and I know EXACTLY how enforce his defeat him, whic occur triumphantly at the cross. The word of God is quick (living) and sharper than any two-edged sword my brother. Our warfare is not against the flesh but against the prince of this world. And while he is a formidable foe, he does not stand a chance against a saint dressed in Christ's garments; clothed in His righteousness and might. For this is the victory which overcomes the world, even our faith.

It seems to me you [u]may[/u] have been taken in by her personality, disabling you from seeing the truth about her doctrine. I would ask you to examine yourself and your motives for your defense of Ms. Meyers.

With Respect,

Brother Suarez

PS It appears to me that by your own admission, I infer that you acknowledge the fact that their teachings are false. For since your initial response you have not defended her doctrine, but rather stated that she "mis-spoke". The issue David is that you seem to place more importance on defending a person more than the Word of God and upholding its integrity. Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems your priorities are inverted and misplaced. Just my observation.

 2007/6/21 11:44Profile









 Re:

I will say that these teachers are not somehow, innocent vessles that propogate heresy. They are enemies of the cross of Christ. Not just their doctrine, but them personally. Notice how Paul puts it.

2 Corinthians 11:13
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

1 Timothy 6:
3If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

Naming names - Jim

 2007/6/21 11:50
vsuarez
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 52


 Re:

Quote:

jimdied2sin wrote:
I will say that these teachers are not somehow, innocent vessles that propogate heresy. They are enemies of the cross of Christ. Not just their doctrine, but them personally. Notice how Paul puts it.

2 Corinthians 11:13
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

1 Timothy 6:
3If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

Naming names - Jim




I totally agree with you. And after reading your response I can see how mine could be taken as a letting those who teach this doctrine off-the-hook. They are in fact enemies of the cross of Christ. They have willing yielded their vessels to be used for this purpose. I did not mean to intimate that they are being innocently used against their will and conscience. Only that I want to focus in on our ultimate enemy. They are false teachers clothed in sheeps clothing, i.e false shepards. So I thank you for pointing that out.

 2007/6/21 11:59Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Krispy, Wow so much supposition and name calling. I didnt mean to "yell".and I didnt know I did. But am willing to learn.[will watch out forr those caps]
I dont doubt that anyone reading my posts will learn real quick that i am uneducated.
Am trying real hard to participate.It takes me foreveer to bang out a post.
Iwas intimidated at first but came back.I dont know if you are trying to bully me but it sure looks that way. the thingss you say about me are faabricated in your head.
you command me with great authority. As if I must obey you.
you need to go back and read what you wrote to me......its simply not true
.....David

 2007/6/21 12:03Profile









 Re:

Hey David-

I hope that you wont get to distracted by krispy and will consider the main point that is being said. I used to be a huge Meyer fan until someone showed me how satanic it was. That was a big turning point in my life, as it forced me to seek out Gods truth in many areas and make painful adjustments to my walk.

If I have offended you in anyway, I apologize.

Do consider my words on this topic though.

in Christ - Jim

 2007/6/21 12:14









 Re:

Quote:
Krispy, Wow so much supposition and name calling.



I have not called you any names, except brother.

I think if you and I learn to give and take with each other, you'll find that you'll like me... and may even become addicted to me. :-)

C'mon bro... I'm just trying to get you to chill out and reason together with us. You blast people, and then recoil when there is a response to your tone.

How about just discussing with us why you believe the way you do about Joyce Meyer and others like her.

Krispy

 2007/6/21 12:17
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

I agree with you aand Krispy 99% i just dont come to the place of calling joyce a false teacher.
I am not a man of means and am not tryimng to get rich. Its possible the rich will have more to answer for. maybe i do need to investigate more into joyce. I havent heard her for aalmost two years now. Since we left Florida. I just cant imagine her as a false teacher.
Maybe it because of my immaturity.
...David

 2007/6/21 12:30Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear brothers in Christ,

wow, this has been a fun thread. thank you all for writing on this. i, along with many here, do not wish to attack joyce meyer personally, but doctrinally. let us hold those false teachings against the true word of God and let her teachings prove her to be a false teacher of the gospel..

shall her teachings not be opposed or held to the light of God's word because she seems nice and funny??? c'mon, we all know the answer to that one..

anyways, thanks guys for posting on here..

 2007/6/21 12:31Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re:

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15038&forum=34&1]7 Characteristics of false Teachers[/url]


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/6/21 12:37Profile





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