.... I have some Tylenol if anyone needs some.
| 2007/6/12 11:39|
Quote: Bro Mike, this is not a side issue, though it may be an issue more suited to a separate thread.
I think this is the kind of situation which Forrest is talking about. The Lord is preparing His people, and He seems to be starting with certain individuals who will become a small "nucleus" of life and hope in the gathering darkness. Not necessarily in leadership in the ordinary way, but to be a place, a "city of refuge" if you like (to use an Old Testament term) for those who flee persecution, or who are seeking God.
An orderly one? I do understand all the things we might bring to this as to current or possible things that may or may not be going on. There is a degree that would beg off of all this to more seemingly important matters, there are certainly those. But it is an observable trait again that it leads off to side issues that casts the main matter off to one side and never has any resolution.
I am in no way seeking to beg off the main issue, nor am I supporting the usurping of authority by women in the Church. Surely things I've written on this thread should have made that clear by now?
I don't [i]want[/i] to usurp authority, or encourage others to do so! Neither do I do any teaching any more - unless this is teaching?
But I have "seen" what is about to happen (not in vision, but as real and urgent as if it were) and believe it is very close.
This is why I wrote that we should seek the Lord to know if there are any remnants of rebellion in our hearts against Him, and to deal with them.
Quote:Not sure what you mean here. "insinuation" against you? God forbid!!! Since being in SI I have grown to love and respect you too much in the Lord to make insinuations! Again I can't imagine why you should have thought it possible that I should...
just as willing and tempted to do as much frankly, but at the same time I am not feeling particularly weary over it ... beating a dead horse as the parlance would have it in continuing on the same points ... I would rather not nor is this another insinuation other than against myself.
What is the default spiritual mechanism over things thought doubtful, is it to assert or to revert?
However, I was not talking about the "default situation, but a time of [i]emergency[/i] when spiritual (and maybe physical) [i]survival[/i] will be a huge battle.
And that is why our hearts must be right - [i]including[/i] a right attitude of submission (to the Lord first, then to others) and right relationship to both Church and secular authority BEFORE this happens.
Otherwise we shall not be able to stand.
[u]That is the very reason that the discussion in this thread, and other current threads relating to our response to authority, are so vital NOW, and are all linked to these times of preparation.[/u]
Yours in Him
| 2007/6/12 12:31|
Quote:Thanks Krispy, I might take up the offer if I knew what Tylenol was!
.... I have some Tylenol if anyone needs some.
Sounds a like the brand name for a high blood pressure remedy (atenolol?)
Thanks for the bit of humour - it's probably needed at the moment!
| 2007/6/12 12:40|
| Re: famine of the Word|
This is not for any one person. Please understand that first. It's just something pressing on me.
There are signs that we are starving to death.
Yes, and it will get worse. That's why we need to be filled full of the Word in our hearts as well as our minds.
I am challenged by your words, becasue I don't get into the Scriptures like I used to.
Another aspect, another vital issue - like the authority issue - that also has to be settled in our hearts beforehand.
I'm going to start another thread on this, because of believing it's so important, and urgent. On slightly different lines, but connected with what you said.
Isaiah 17 was the passage given. Originally re Israel and Damascus, but relevant to the Church in these days too.
| 2007/6/12 12:58|
| Re: Hey!|
Not tylenol Krispy, you should know from being down yonder here in Nascar-ville that Goody powders are Faster. Even I've seen that commercial and know by personal experience. Just take TWO Extra-strength packs and down them with a cup of coffee (or 2) and you'll have no pain.
May lose your stomach and all, but you won't feel it. Ha.
Jeannetter, it's just acetaminophen.
~ I get the feeling that no one has had a chance to read 2 Kings 22 yet.
I didn't pull that one outta the air. :-D
There's a lot in that chpt and running most of the way on to chpt 23.
I'd like to discuss it if someone would give their take on it.
THANKS and Hello from Goody Powder country.
| 2007/6/12 12:58|
I said Tylenol because if I said "Goodies" only those of us who are "American by birth, and Southern by the grace of God" would know what I am talking about...!
| 2007/6/12 13:13|
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
1Cr 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
These are all Paul's statement. Paul has certain circumstances and situations to deal with in his ministry. But his full attention is not on those situations and circumstances but on Christ and His place in the Body of Christ. There is only one Head of the Body, be it anyone or wife or husband or Jew or Gentile or any other that believes that the circumstances or situation override the position we have in Christ, there is no position at all. How could anyone want to be under authority of anyone except Him? Since He is our life and our only life, when it comes to God and His salvation in Christ. If in the world we have circumstances and situations that are in line with what Paul dealt with in the world then where do we need to be? Not in the Law and certainly not arguing about who is in submission. We are all in submission to God in Christ Jesus.
1Cr 16:16 That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with [us], and laboureth.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Hbr 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you.
Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1Pe 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all [of you] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
Proud man proud woman are resisted by God. Humble man and humble woman God gives abundant Grace.
If the problem in the church is women taking over and using the gifts outside the Spirit of God then Paul's admonition is good and proper and should be done in the church.
If a woman is in Christ in the church, she is no different than the man in Christ. She should be listened to as much as the man. The Spirit of God leads both man and woman for His glory. There is a definite difference for those that are in Christ and those that are not. Christ is the life of all those that are in Him and Him in them, the Father in Christ, Christ in the Father and they in man and woman. How can man say there is any difference in the spirit of a man and the spirit of a woman if it is the Spirit of Christ. Our freedom is in Christ both man and woman. Why would God give the same Spirit of both if there was to be a man over the woman. Christ is over the man, the man is over the woman, How does this give authority of anyone but Christ for both. The man is over the woman for one reason, God made her simply a physically weaker vessel, that is the Pot of Clay is a little different, praise God.
We are subject to The Father who's abode is with us by the Christ in us because they are One, and the Holy Spirit in us also, because the Trinity is One. We have it all, both man and woman. Let us give greater honor to the weaker vessel and love them the way Jesus Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for Her, His Bride. Hear ye Him through both man and woman. Not lording it over anyone.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2007/6/12 14:19||Profile|
Fort Frances, Ontario
You have cited alot of scripture, but it still does not undo what Paul said about the woman usurping authority over man when it comes to leading the church.
If a woman is in Christ in the church, she is no different than the man in Christ. She should be listened to as much as the man.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1 Timothy 2:12
| 2007/6/12 15:09||Profile|
Phillip... pretty cavalier way to use scripture, taking verses out of context to fit your argument, yet ignoring other scriptures that wont fit your argument.
Your real name isnt Rick Warren, is it? ;-)
Why do you ignore Paul's explanation for the order (or chain of command, if you will) of things in the church. Paul's reasoning for why women are not to teach or have authority over men? If you're going to use scripture for your arguments, why not use all of it... and in context?
Are we to just ignore the parts that might make us uncomfortable?
Paul left no doubt as to why he said what he said about women in the church, and why they can not exercise authority over men in the church... how you can just cut it out and ignore it is beyond me.
Proof texting issues is a very dangerous and deceitful practice.
| 2007/6/12 15:32|
| Re: Now...Children!|
Let's all play nice!
And Krispy, I'm allergic to acetominophen, regardless of the name. But my, you Southerner's do make it sound like it's a naughty thing to take!
Give Mike time to answer - I need the information to find out where his cogs and wheels turn!
We're already both in agreement to abide by the literal gospel. What we want to discuss is why!!!
And to us, the why is very important, not just doing it, 'cause we have different reasons...kind of!
Thanks for the comedy act!!! 8-)
I'll be back later tonight!
| 2007/6/12 16:13||Profile|