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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : No Denominations In Heaven!

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ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

richardf wrote:
This thread troubles me, but I don't know why.





I, too, am grieved with the direction this thread was taken. It shows only too painfully how deeply we need-- each of us-- to grow up into Him who is The Head, and, surrendering ALL, speak only out from His Mind.

This is a very high Hope, but I trust that what He has promised-- a people in the earth totally harmonized with Himself, of the same mind, perfectly joined together in all things, one in love AND in truth-- He is able to perform.

AD


_________________
Allan Halton

 2007/5/4 11:15Profile









 Re:

Krispy said

Quote:
Well... like I said, I was judging your words, not your heart. Why do I say this? Because perhaps I'm not understanding fully what you're saying.



I was judging your words, as well. And I hope this is just a misunderstanding as well.

Quote:
Based on your words I think you're understanding of salvation is not scriptural.



Not my words only. Look again at the [b]scripture[/b] quoted in my last post. Jesus says those who cry "Lord, Lord" and don't do what He commands are turned away from the kingdom. Those who take up their cross and die are saved. James says "faith without works is dead". John the Divine says the souls under the alter died for the testimony (refusing to deny Jesus).

I understand the futility of trying to enter in to the kingdom on our own merits. I understand that faith comes before works - but not "sola fide"; not without works.

Quote:
You're words that I've quoted above say quite a bit about your attitude as well. I express concern, you tell me it's none of my business.

OK... shaking dust off the shoes. (Luke 9:5)



I admit I may appear crass and unrefined, but that's only because I want the truth. I'm tired of pleasing people by telling them what they want to hear - that's why I'm trying to leave the world as far as possible. I looked to the churches for a place of sanctuary and have found as many, if not more, sycophants there as well.

I suppose I could hand-to-mouth when the preacher says we'll go floating off into the sky before tribulation comes... but then there's all those souls under the alter waiting for the rest of their brethren to be slain.

And I could smile and nod when he says "born again" Bush is doing a great job for Jesus by fighting gay marriage... and yet hundreds of thousands have died in the Middle East due to the "Decider's" misinformed invasion.

Or maybe I ought to throw up my hands, smiling, with tears running down my face when he blathers on in tongues and prophecies wealth, houses, new cars and fun for the congregation.

Krispy, I have no alternative. I either read my Bible, pray to the LORD and ask questions when I discern something doesn't jibe... or I agree with people who tell me this leaking ship isn't sinking.

Did you know people continued drinking and dancing after the Titanic hit the iceberg?

I want to be in the Lifeboat Christ's in. It's a small one. Few are in there.

Quote:
But scripture tells us in for different passages (all words of Christ) that if we share the gospel and it is rejected, walk away.



He also said take up your cross and die.

Quote:
I'm holding out hope that he is just a bad communicator, or I am a bad understander... and that there is a miscommunication going on.



Probably both, or neither... maybe we're just on different wavelengths.

I simply stated way back in this thread that under persecution, Wurmbrand noted, Catholics, Orthodox, Methodists, etc, worshipped together, refused to deny Christ equally, and died for their faith.

Someone said that Catholics were still doomed.

I said we can't judge their standing with God simply by the denomination they belong to.

I never said anyone's going to heaven or hell. I don't know. But neither do you. It's up to God.

You said something about sola fide, that faith in Jesus was the only way into the kingdom.

I countered with scripture that points out that faith without works is dead, that Christ commands us to be "doers of the law", not simply believers. I also quoted the scripture about the souls under the alter waiting for their brethren to be slain.

Krispy, I appreciate your posts and have agreed with many things you've said on other threads. No hard feelings here either.

 2007/5/4 12:51









 Re:

OK... I understand better now.

Let's ignore the politics you've brought up, only because Bush has nothing to do with this conversation. Not saying I agree or disagree... just that it's not relevent.

Quote:
Someone said that Catholics were still doomed.



As far as I know, no one here said that. I didnt. I said if they are putting their faith in the sacraments of the church... then they are not saved. Thats scriptural.

Quote:
I said we can't judge their standing with God simply by the denomination they belong to.



I agree... amen. Keep in mind, however, that the Catholic Church is a false religion just like Mormonism or Islam. It's not a denomination. Ask a Catholic priest if the RCC is a denomination. He will tell you under no uncertain terms that it is not... it is the "true church", and non Catholic Christians are apostate.

Quote:
You said something about sola fide, that faith in Jesus was the only way into the kingdom.



Thats right... and I'll stand by that.

Quote:
I countered with scripture that points out that faith without works is dead, that Christ commands us to be "doers of the law", not simply believers. I also quoted the scripture about the souls under the alter waiting for their brethren to be slain.



Amen... I agree. Here's the thing, if one is truly saved the [b]fruit[/b] will be good works. I think thats where the confusion is. We can not bear good fruit until we are first saved. We are saved by by faith, not of works lest any man should boast. [b]Out of that faith[/b] will come good works. It happens because there has been a change in us, and the Holy Spirit is at work in us... and the result is good works. We now have a desire to please God, and we do this by being doers of the word, and not just hearers.

If we claim we've been saved, and there is no evidence of this... via good works, then we arent saved. Not because we didnt do good works, but because we were never truly saved by faith to begin with, and therefore [b]couldnt[/b] bear good fruit.

Krispy

 2007/5/4 13:00









 Re:

Krispy,

I don't disagree with a thing you just posted. Yay!

-Corey

 2007/5/4 13:13









 Re:

I thought it was a bit strange that all of a sudden we werent coming together on some as basic as this.... it's been a wierd couple of days on this forum!

Krispy

 2007/5/4 13:16









 Re:

Quote:
I thought it was a bit strange that all of a sudden we werent coming together on some as basic as this.... it's been a wierd couple of days on this forum!



Agreed. Do you really think Mormonism's a false religion?


...joking

 2007/5/4 13:58









 Re:

... just a little bit!

Krispy

 2007/5/4 14:08
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Krispy and Corey,

Thanks for clarifying things, and for the grace you are showing to one another in the latest posts.

As a relative newcomer here-- and not knowing either of you-- it's difficult to judge where others are at.

I certainly have no interest in peace and harmony at the expense of truth. It's just that I felt the original intent of this thread somehow got sidelined. But I came into the "room" late myself, I guess. Maybe I shouldn't have interrupted the "conversation" at that stage.

Anyway, I think this matter of unity in the body of Christ is something the Lord holds very close to His heart. It's my hope that we will all be seeking Him as to how we can cooperate with Him so that He can have the desire of His heart. There is "out there" a great movement taking place that is bringing about a totally false unity... in which people are being taught they can come together under one great big ecumenical umbrella and still maintain their denominational differences and identities... and which seems to be very willing to roll out the red carpet for the Roman Catholic Church and who knows what else. The charismatic movement seems to be at the helm of this. And what an Abomination it all is.

Beware. Days of great deception are already upon us. In the midst of it it is going to take a heart that receives not just "the truth," but the LOVE OF the truth... that we might be saved. (2 Thes. 2.10). It is going to take recognizing and paying close attention to the Shepherd's Voice and walking in Salvation here and now, never mind living a carnal life and trusting you will go to Heaven when you die just because at some point you "believed" in Jesus.

Woops. What have I started now.

Anyway, thanks for what you have done.

AD



_________________
Allan Halton

 2007/5/4 15:00Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

There is "out there" a great movement taking place that is bringing about a totally false unity... in which people are being taught they can come together under one great big ecumenical umbrella and still maintain their denominational differences and identities...



Indeed, ecumenism is not the solution. The one thing I want to place emphasis on here is the fact that the unity that is to be brought about, and the maturity that is to be brought about, must be the doing of the Lord. It is His work that He will do. The ecumenical movement is nothing more than an Ishamel-- attempting to help fulfill the promise of God by helping God out. Unless this unity and maturity happen through the work of the Spirit, then peace cannot ever happen.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/5/4 17:57Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

KingJimmy wrote:

Quote:


Indeed, ecumenism is not the solution. The one thing I want to place emphasis on here is the fact that the unity that is to be brought about, and the maturity that is to be brought about, must be the doing of the Lord. It is His work that He will do. The ecumenical movement is nothing more than an Ishamel-- attempting to help fulfill the promise of God by helping God out. Unless this unity and maturity happen through the work of the Spirit, then peace cannot ever happen.





Amen. That is the heart of it.

When you mentioned unity and maturity together it reminded me of Psalm 133.

"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity. It is like the precioius ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments..."

So, the unity is "like" the Ointment upon the Head that ran down upon the beard (there's the maturity) ...even Aaron's beard: here is the anointed priesthood with only one concern: the Rule of The Anointing, and the glory of the Lord.

The unity God is set on bringing forth is, as you said, God's work alone: ours only as we are abiding in "the same anointing" that is upon the Head, and that flows down upon the whole Body of Christ.

...What can you do when He shares with us a glimpse of such high and holy things... but tremble, and bow your head in worship.

Do, Lord, as Thou hast said. We are grieved with the condition of our hearts. There is so much immaturity in us: bring us to maturity, cause us to put away childish things. Cause us to put away our Ishmaels, though they may be as dear to our hearts as Abraham's was to him; teach us to wait on You, to wait upon and abide in Your Anointing (for it is ALL Yours). And the Anointing alone is truth, and nothing else that we may know or think we know. Amen.

AD


_________________
Allan Halton

 2007/5/4 19:07Profile





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