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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : No Denominations In Heaven!

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 Re:

Corey... unfortunately your beliefs seem to be based more on emotion, feelings and your opinions of right and wrong. I would recommend you check and see if they line up with scripture. From what you've said, they dont.

God judges by His Word... not by our human mind's opinion of constitutes justice.

I say this in love because I am concerned... you need to get your beliefs in line with scripture because I believe your skating on thin ice. Thats not a put down, or a judgement (because I hope I'm wrong)... it's just a concern for you.

Krispy

 2007/5/2 16:28









 Re:

Quote:
Come on, people! We're alive! None of us on this board... NONE OF US HAVE FACED THAT TRIAL. How can we condemn a martyr to hell for being a catholic? Because he's a sinner?



First off... how do you know no one here has never faced that trial? Do have any inclination how many people visit this site from around the world? Do you know any of us personally? You dont even know my real name. For all you know, I could be Billy Graham.

Secondly, none of us are condemning anyone to hell. They are condemning themselves.

You're saying being a martyr gets you to heaven. So in other words we can earn our salvation by being martyred? You know who else believes that? Suicide bombers in Iraq.

Krispy

 2007/5/2 16:32
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
I believe that God sees all, knows all, and judges all - not us.

I believe that any professing "Christian" who denigrates ANYONE who died for refusing to deny Jesus... who hasn't faced the trial him/herself... is in immediate danger of hellfire and judgement.


You mean, you would judge someone for doing that...?

I'm glad you do seem to believe we are to have some type of judgment- at least by your words you show you do. We are to judge righteous judgment.

If my memory is right, I believe the early church dealt with people that thought that martyrdom would save them, or make them "super Christians." That is what I was poking at and coming against. Next time I will just try to lay it all out. I didn't mean to cause any confusion if I did.


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Josh Parsley

 2007/5/2 16:33Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

I didn't know there were going to be posts between mine and yours, Corey. If I knew there would be I wouldn't have even posted mine. I don't want it to look like we are just blasting you, but please consider what has been said.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/5/2 16:35Profile









 Re:

Quote:
We don't know any man's relationship with God. And to judge a man's heart by his denomination is, in my humble opinion, is sheer foolishness and utterly dangerous.



I must have missed something... I dont recall seeing where anyone in this conversation did that. Catholics can certainly be saved. I know many. But once they begin to grow and mature in the Lord, they dont stay in the RCC for very long. They get out.

I know I never said Catholics go to hell. I said anyone who puts their faith in the sacraments of the Church in order to be saved will find themselves in hell.

Scripture is clear... there is only one salvation. That is faith in the complete work of Christ done at the cross for the remission of sins. Anything less or added to that is not salvation.

Period.

Dont like it? Talk to God... those arent my words, they're His.

Krispy

 2007/5/2 16:41









 Re:

Quote:
First off... how do you know no one here has never faced that trial? Do have any inclination how many people visit this site from around the world? Do you know any of us personally? You dont even know my real name. For all you know, I could be Billy Graham.



Logic. Everyone currently posting here is alive. A living person cannot be a martyr. Therefore, no one on this board is or has been a martyr (hence, none here can justifiably judge any martyr who died for Christ's name).

If you told me the truth earlier about starting up a small prayer group, and then a home church, I can induce you are not Billy Graham - if you are Billy Graham, why are you so wealthy and why do you run with worldy presidents and politicians?

Quote:
Secondly, none of us are condemning anyone to hell. They are condemning themselves.



We will be judged for every idle word we speak. Therefore, when you come before that Sapphire Throne surrounded by fire and seraphims, and the Ancient of the Ages gazes piercingly through your life with eyes flaming with a brilliance ten thousand times brighter than the Sun... and He asks you why you told others a martyr who died in Jesus' name was going to hell... what will you say?

Even if you don't know the fate of that man, what will you say?

Quote:
You're saying being a martyr gets you to heaven. So in other words we can earn our salvation by being martyred? You know who else believes that? Suicide bombers in Iraq.



I'll let Jesus answer that one:

"Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven... And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." (MATT 10:32-40)

 2007/5/2 17:03
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

If my memory is right, I believe the early church dealt with people that thought that martyrdom would save them, or make them "super Christians."



Indeed. So much so that there became what some scholars would call a "Cult of the Martyr."


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Jimmy H

 2007/5/2 22:46Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re: No Denominations In Heaven!

Quote:

KingJimmy wrote:
Recently I was pondering on passages such as John 17 and Ephesians 4 in which the Scriptures state that part of God's ultimate intent for the church is that all those who are saved be in perfect unity. I believe one day we will see this fulfilled here on the earth. What it will take to bring such a thing about, God only knows. But one thing I believe God has shown me is this: There are no denominations in heaven!

And if we are seriously praying "thy kingdom come, thy will be done," then we can expect that God's will shall be fulfilled in regard to the church here on earth, and that anything that resists God's will shall surely fade away.

So, if there are no denominations in heaven, then why should there be any here on earth?


Just some thoughts...




Greetings, all...
Just want to splice something in here. I've quoted KingJimmy's original post, the one that started this thread. I am in full agreement with what he has said. And I felt there was a spiritual burden in that original post that I pray we will not lose sight of.

No denominations in heaven. And, since God has taught us to pray that His will be done in earth as in heaven, it is obviously His great desire and intent to manifest in the earth ONE church in which ALL believers are joined together in perfect harmony under One Head.

And you only need to view the differing thoughts in this very thread to see how far we are from that. Please don't misunderstand me: I am not being critical-- just stating facts.

We are prepared to recognize this, aren't we? Never mind that there are division among denominations, but even among ourselves we still have not arrived at the "mind of Christ."

I mean, having one mind, all of us TOGETHER. "Now I beseech you brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak THE SAME THING, and that there be NO divisions among you, but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment" (1 Cor. 1.10).

What do you do in the face of that Scripture? Shake your head? Water it down? Paul, could we talk about this? Are you sure you know what you are asking?

Or do you BELIEVE?

This is the glory of God he's talking about. God, are you really going to return your GLORY to your people? Do YOU know the implications of doing that? And what such a thing is likely to do to our denominations and opinions?

KingJimmy wonders what it will take to bring this into being, and I guess we all wonder that. I know I wonder. Tribulation, shakings, Fire...

All that. But Jesus says it will take His intercession for us: "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word, that they all may be one, as Thou Father art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in us..." (Jn 17.20) His intercession for us at the right hand of the Father. It will take that, and those who are seeking to be in tune with Him will find that intercession being expressed in their own prayers in the Spirit.

And further, He says it will take His giving us the glory that God has given Him. "And the glory which Thou gavest Me I have given them, that they may be one, even as we are one..." (Jn 17.22)

So, How does He do that? How does He give us HIS glory? I just ask the question so we will earnestly seek this, all of us. HIS glory.

If we are truly desirous of seeing HIM glorified in the earth, and in our own lives, THIS will bring us into a single-eyed unity of purpose, something we seek, something we long for, something we anticipate, and not just "pie in the sky" that God will get around to doing some wonderful day down there at the end of the time charts.

This will bring about that fearsome harmony that the world is waiting for, waiting to see among the Christians. And it's THIS unity that Jesus says will cause the world to believe (Jn. 1721).

So, am I seeking HIS glory? This is the secret of the unity He has in mind. He that is ascended has sent the Holy Spirit into the earth with this ONE commission: "HE SHALL GLORIFY ME." (Jn. 16.14) That's something the ministries and every one of us needs to lay deeply to heart. The Holy Spirit is in the earth, to glorify, to reveal, Jesus: to do only what HE is doing, to speak only what HE is saying. And so, if you and I (who profess to be temples of the Holy Spirit) are doing that, we will be ONE. Not speaking our own words, but HIS, not doing our own thing, but HIS. Not holding our own opinions, but HIS. Having no doctrines of our own, but HIS... Seeking to glorify HIM.

This turned out longer than I had intended, but thanks for listening.

AD


_________________
Allan Halton

 2007/5/3 0:23Profile









 Re:

Quote:
why are you so wealthy



Uhmmm... if you knew anything about Billy Graham, you would know he is not wealthy.

I live 20 miles from where he lives. I've been by his house. It's very modest. He has purposely lived on a fixed salary since the 1950's in order to avoid the temptation of money, and so that he could not be accused of being wealthy because of the Gospel.

Dont be so judgemental.

Quote:
We will be judged for every idle word we speak. Therefore, when you come before that Sapphire Throne surrounded by fire and seraphims, and the Ancient of the Ages gazes piercingly through your life with eyes flaming with a brilliance ten thousand times brighter than the Sun... and He asks you why you told others a martyr who died in Jesus' name was going to hell... what will you say?



Well, first off... you're misrepresenting my words. Thats convenient. But to play your game, my response would be:

"Because You said 'For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.'" (Ephesians 2:8-9)

...but then, God knows His Word much better than I do. He already knows He said that.

Dont you get it, man? Salvation is not based on what we do or what we go thru... it's based on our trusting in the shed blood of Jesus for the forgiveness of sin! Many people have claimed to believe in Jesus (Matthew 7:22-23), and yet He will say to them "depart from me, I never knew you". There even have been people who were killed for not denying the name of Christ, yet they themselves were trusting in the sacraments of the Catholic Church for their salvation... and not the blood of Christ alone. They died believing in their own works to save them.

And it's a shame, and I take no pleasure in that.

This is not a "holier than thou" thing, and I dont say what I say to make myself feel superior to anyone. This is truth that I speak, and it's truth that you need to hear. Why? Because if what you are saying on this thread is truly what you believe about your own salvation... then I dont know that you are truly saved. I'm [b]not[/b] judging your heart, I am judging your words. Only you know for sure what you believe... but your words betray you, I think.

I really care about you, my friend... and to quote Keith Green "I only just want to see you there..."

Krispy

 2007/5/3 7:51
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Just want to splice something in here. I've quoted KingJimmy's original post, the one that started this thread. I am in full agreement with what he has said. And I felt there was a spiritual burden in that original post that I pray we will not lose sight of.



Amen ADisciple. You have expressed the burden that is indeed on my heart quite well. This is part of an overall message that I plan on bringing at my church this Sunday.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/5/3 9:45Profile





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