SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : " The Book Of Revelation " ( finally understood )

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re: Preterism?

Quote:

Nile wrote:
Quote:
There are several people here that have looked into preterism, I for one have. To me Partial Preterism, like the Pre and Post Tribulation teachings has too many problems with it, it creates too many questions, whereas Full Preterism does not. I am currently studying parttime the Full Preterist viewpoint straight from the word, let the bible interpret the bible,and throw away the commentaries. IMHO



Yes, partial-preterism does raise a lot of questions. I used to be the typical pre-trib futurist, but then I stumbled upon partial-preterism. The more I looked into it, the more I agreed with it. I was fairly convinced it was right until recently when, having dug deeper into the word, I'm seeing all sorts of troubling passages for partial-preterists. In light of this, I've gone back to the standard, "I don't know" position!!!

Concerning full preterism, I believe it is very bad...how much have you looked into it? Do you know that they deny any future resurrection or coming of Christ?

btw, -[url=http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/index.html]this[/url]- is the best site I have found that discusses preterism.

Also, -[url=http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/simmons-kurt_p_07_01.html]this[/url]- is one of the articles that showed me the problems with full preterism.

And you are very right about letting the Bible interpret the Bible! :-)

May God be with us and lead us into truth,
Nile

Thanks for these sources, Nile. I have long suspected that Compliments is a full Preterist, though in some things seems not as extreme as someone on an email list I belong to. Before that I'd never even heard of the term Preterism.

My main objection to full Preterism is that this old world can't possibly go on for ever, even from a purely physical, non-Christian viewpoint. Sooner or later God has to step in and make a "new heavens and a new earth". Otherwise most living things, (except microbes?), including the human race, will simply become extinct, from accumulation of genetic faults if nothing else.

Patrtial Preterism makes more sense. Historically many things prophesied in Scripture have been at least partly fulfilled. But that the return of Christ has already happened???? No, I can't swallow that...

Don't forget that prophecy has many layers and often partial fulfillments before the final fulfillment in Christ. Even the written Word is richer than our minds can grasp, and speaks in many ways re past, present and future things.

Preterism should be in another thread, maybe, but I'm glad you and Compliments brought it up...

Love in Jesus

Jeannette

 2007/4/28 20:45
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Error

Delete - server error


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/4/29 13:58Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I have long suspected that Compliments is a full Preterist

Good LORD! I said I was studying it, I haven't embraced it:-P I too am asking questions. There are somethings that I do know, others elude my understanding. Everything that concerns the Old Testament prophecies are completely fulfilled. The New Testament prophecies concerning the second coming and the resurrection are a mystery. I am seeking the LORD for a revelation, I am not satisfied with what the pillers of preterism have said about it.

So please peg me as a Partial Preterist for now. And a partial preterist is one who believes ALL is fulfilled accept for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and the Resurrection, 1000 year riegn and the Judgement.

 2007/4/29 15:05









 Re: Compliments

Quote:

Compliments wrote:
Quote:
I have long suspected that Compliments is a full Preterist

Good LORD! I said I was studying it, I haven't embraced it:-P I too am asking questions. There are somethings that I do know, others elude my understanding. Everything that concerns the Old Testament prophecies are completely fulfilled. The New Testament prophecies concerning the second coming and the resurrection are a mystery. I am seeking the LORD for a revelation, I am not satisfied with what the pillers of preterism have said about it.

So please peg me as a Partial Preterist for now. And a partial preterist is one who believes ALL is fulfilled accept for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and the Resurrection, 1000 year riegn and the Judgement.

Hi Compliments!

Maybe you're not a full Preterist in the same sort of way that a High Anglican isn't a Catholic? ie believe almost exactly the same things except for one or two... :-P

I thought partial Preterism was believing that PART of the OT scriptures are fully fulfilled; or alternatively that ALL the OT scriptures are partially fulfilled. That was what an article I read on it suggested - not in those words. (Will look it up if you're interested.) I probably come into that category, if anything.

What makes you think that "Everything that concerns the Old Testament prophecies are completely fulfilled"? What about the [i]Old Testament prophecies[/i] about the Second Coming and the Judgement?

Love in Him who makes all things plain, (but doesn't always answer our questions!)

Jeannette

 2007/4/29 16:03









 Re:

Oh, who am I kidding. The Old Testament is not fulfilled. Some are certainly, but we are living in the last days. Gods chosen people, the children of Israel will be the main focus in the future and God will visit her again and rule in Jerusalem. The anti Christ will arise and sign a peace treaty with Israel for 7 years thus fulfilling Daniel 9:27. But we won't be here for we are awaiting the rapture that will catch us away. Oh that day will be great, and it almost upon us. I can hardly wait to get our new body in that resurrection. The Kingdom of God is awaiting us in Heaven, and our Mansion which is bright and beautiful will be on the hilltop next door to Jesus. We'll all be perfect and complete in Him on that day. Oh but I see, New Jerusalem coming down from the sky landing on top of Old Jerusalem, in that day old things will have passed away, behold all things will have become new. It will be the dawn of a new Day, the Day Star will arise in our hearts.

What a day that will be.

 2007/4/29 20:36
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Jhn 18:9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

I don't believe Jesus is going to start now, loosing those the Father gives Him.

How can someone loose what is not theirs in the first place. A new life in Christ. Salvation most sure. Jhn 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

If salvation was able to be obtained by what we do then we could loose our salvation. Since salvation is not obtained by self works, either is it lost by self sin, for Christ is now our righteousness.


1 Corinthians 1:24-31 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Can God call and not be responded to? God's choosing is perfect and all will respond.
Ephesians 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

No person will ever choose God, without God's intervention and He draw and drag us to Christ.
Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

In Christ, Who not loose any that are given Him.
How can God give birth and then abort His precious Seed, Christ. The child cannot abort itself. That is why abortion is murder.

Loosing ones salvation would be killing Jesus Christ again. God has said that will not happen.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Just as we live in Christ, we live unto God.

Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/4/30 0:23Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Compliments wrote:
Oh, who am I kidding. The Old Testament is not fulfilled. Some are certainly, but we are living in the last days. Gods chosen people, the children of Israel will be the main focus in the future and God will visit her again and rule in Jerusalem. The anti Christ will arise and sign a peace treaty with Israel for 7 years thus fulfilling Daniel 9:27. But we won't be here for we are awaiting the rapture that will catch us away. Oh that day will be great, and it almost upon us. I can hardly wait to get our new body in that resurrection. The Kingdom of God is awaiting us in Heaven, and our Mansion which is bright and beautiful will be on the hilltop next door to Jesus. We'll all be perfect and complete in Him on that day. Oh but I see, New Jerusalem coming down from the sky landing on top of Old Jerusalem, in that day old things will have passed away, behold all things will have become new. It will be the dawn of a new Day, the Day Star will arise in our hearts.

What a day that will be.

I'm not at all convinced that the Bible teaches we won't be here when the Antichrist comes. If we will be here, that teaching is highly dangerous because we might even mistake him for the real Christ...

That's the way things seem to be going in the Christian world. Its possible for even the elect to be deceived...

Now you HAVE convinced me you're not a full Preterist :-P

...Or were you being sarcastic in what you wrote? It does sound as if you might be....?????

That's the problem with communicating withou tone of voice or expression being known!

In Him

Jeannette

 2007/4/30 4:56
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re:

Quote:

LittleGift wrote:
Quote:

Compliments wrote:
Oh, who am I kidding. The Old Testament is not fulfilled. Some are certainly, but we are living in the last days. Gods chosen people, the children of Israel will be the main focus in the future and God will visit her again and rule in Jerusalem. The anti Christ will arise and sign a peace treaty with Israel for 7 years thus fulfilling Daniel 9:27. But we won't be here for we are awaiting the rapture that will catch us away. Oh that day will be great, and it almost upon us. I can hardly wait to get our new body in that resurrection. The Kingdom of God is awaiting us in Heaven, and our Mansion which is bright and beautiful will be on the hilltop next door to Jesus. We'll all be perfect and complete in Him on that day. Oh but I see, New Jerusalem coming down from the sky landing on top of Old Jerusalem, in that day old things will have passed away, behold all things will have become new. It will be the dawn of a new Day, the Day Star will arise in our hearts.

What a day that will be.

I'm not at all convinced that the Bible teaches we won't be here when the Antichrist comes. If we will be here, that teaching is highly dangerous because we might even mistake him for the real Christ...

That's the way things seem to be going in the Christian world. Its possible for even the elect to be deceived...

Now you HAVE convinced me you're not a full Preterist :-P

...Or were you being sarcastic in what you wrote? It does sound as if you might be....?????

That's the problem with communicating withou tone of voice or expression being known!

In Him

Jeannette



Other than the blessing attached to reading Revelation, and the plan it seems to lay out for the end days, which seem very close to us now, what with all the countries in the right treaty groups, the Roman Catholic Church gaining ground politically in Italy, and religiously with the Anglicans; China Actually large enough to have the right size army, and other details that are true now, I would delighted to skip the Trib and even the Rapture, if it were possible. Nor do I mind dying for Jesus if it will get me out of this body, and Home!

I looked at the Preterist nonsense, and was surprised that anyone takes this as more than entertainment of the most foolish kind.

Why does anyone bother with this? Do you want to be misled?

Search and read every seperate viewpoint that fits the scriptures in full, and with complete understanding as to it's biblical correctness before moving on to the next. Else, what is the point of having a Bible?

There is so much bull---- in our world today, so many followers of the Evil One trying to lead people astray, that I'm growing less and less interested in being right about what I can know nothing of for sure. It's interesting for speculation, but I caught some major boners in the simplest definition of words on the preterist sites.

But, if there is something in Scripture that can be read plainly, and it makes sense to a plain reading, with no twisting everything to fit, why not keep it?

I believe wholeheartedly in the rapture because Paul taught on it, and he was an Apostle of God.
And I believe the rest of the Bible, because God wrote it.

If the rapture doesn't come at or before the Tribulation, that is also plainly set forth in scripture, well, I'll be disappointed, but I will wait for it, or my death, or get to Petra, and then wait things out.

Now, if neither the Rapture nor the Trib happen, I will be stunned, but only that we mistook one set of events for another.

But I don't think we have.

In any case, I'm happy to be growing older all the time. It shortens my time to Jesus in the worst scenario, and in the best, it won't matter.

Do, please, stop wasting your time with these views that are meant to lead you astray!

Blessings,

Forrest

P.S. My testimony is on the Miracle that follows the Plow.


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/4/30 19:18Profile









 Re:

UniqueWebRev said

Quote:
Do, please, stop wasting your time with these views that are meant to lead you astray!

The full preterist view has many boners that stick out indeed, but the partial preterist view has more truth to it than the pre or post tribulation rapture theories. What the Partial Preterist believe is that all things are fulfilled accept for the Second Coming, Resurrection, and the Judgement. While Full Preterist believe that all has been fulfilled and we are living in the Kingdom Age to which Christ rules and riegns in the hearts of men.

Taking the preterist view point has nothing to do with trying to escape persecution or tribulation, for Jesus said that we will suffer persecution for His name sake. The purpose of Preterism is putting scriptures and times in their proper perspective.

I am the last person who wants to be deceived, this subject has little interest to me, in fact I don't like it. I would love to believe what everyone else believes, but I cannot. I have asked the LORD many times if this is the right way to believe. The LORD said if a man asks me for bread do I give him stone? I've asked for wisdom and understanding of His word, and I can't believe that He would give me something other than His word. His promise is, "If you seek me you will find me, if you seek for me with all of thine heart". I have sought Him with fastings and prayer and with tears sobbing that He open His word. I never asked for a revelation in prophecy, I was asking for the deeper truths like loving Him more, being perfect and holy and true. I laid my life open to him and offered it to Him. My hearts cry is to know Him, oh to know Him and to know His ways.

And He told me that He would remove the darkness and begin to show me some things. Had I known that He was going to show me stuff from a past prophetic viewpoint, I suppose I would not have bothered to seek His face. But still having said that, He is still worth seeking. He is so worth it.

But believe me when I say this, I hate this subject, yet I feel compelled to share it. Forgive me saints, forgive me.

God Bless you

 2007/4/30 20:53
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

Compliments wrote:
The full preterist view has many boners that stick out indeed, but the partial preterist view has more truth to it than the pre or post tribulation rapture theories. What the Partial Preterist believe is that all things are fulfilled accept for the Second Coming, Resurrection, and the Judgement. While Full Preterist believe that all has been fulfilled and we are living in the Kingdom Age to which Christ rules and riegns in the hearts of men.



I wonder if you have listened to either the Parkyns or Pawson series that were recommended? Pawson is good, because he faithfully deals with each stance (Idealist, Preterist, Historicist, Pre, Post and Amillenial). I have to admit that I don't fully agree with his conclusions, but then, at the same time, I do (this probably sounds weird, but you'd have to hear the series to get why I say this).

Parkyns' way of interpreting historical events, in the light of Revelation's imagery makes some sound points. His way of saying, "What would you expect to read, considering this happened in history?" approach is certainly very convincing.

I'll also put forward the following article [url="http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5497&forum=36#39895"]Future History of the Church[/url] and sermon [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=11893]Midrash[/url] by [url="www.moriel.org"]J Jacob Prasch[/url], for some understanding of Jewish Hermeneutics, particularly in the area of eschatology? Pawson does touch on this "light to heavy" theme in his series, but if you are unaware of it, it may be easily missed. This principle, in effect can tie the Historicist and Premillenial views together into a logical statement (in fact, it can also include Preterism and Idealism).

At the end of the day, it is very tempting to try to fit everything into nice neat little boxes, for easy digestion. This was the mistake that the Pharisees made when interpreting the Messianic prophecies, leading to them missing Meshiach when he came.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2007/5/1 7:37Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy