SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Total Depravity & Entire Sanctification

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

Quote:
1 Chron 21:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.


Quote:
The word for provoked is the Hebrew shayith and it comes from a root that means briars. It means to 'prick' or by implication to seduce. This is Satan at work. But what is another 'source' of briers?



And yet David was a man after God's own heart and through whom, Jesus was born. See anything odd about this that we should continue to hold to the notion that the gospel message is nothing more than a message about redemption?

 2007/4/30 11:02
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
What was it in Adam, created in him, that God would not-could not come against? Second question: Does that which was created in him ever change for the born again?



1st answer) God would not choose (select) for Adam. This is how He designed things. Man has to 'choose'. God sets before man life and death - blessing and cursing and says; "Make your selection."

Josh 24:15

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

I think one of the more telling 'choices' in all the Old Testament is when Lot 'chose' the well watered plain of Jordan. He 'lifted up his eyes' and beheld a land that was like unto Egypt as you come unto Zoar. What was it that took hold of Lot's decision making faculties? What did he see when he lifted up his eyes? Wherein did he find pleasure? And while the Children of Israel walked out their tent doors centuries later to behold the glory of God upon the Tabernacle- all Lot seen- with his tent pitched towards what he lifted up his eyes to see (Sodom); was the madness of sin. Abraham chose the 'Mountain' and it took to the end of Lot's life to choose the 'Mountain'- but by then it was too late.

Quote:
Does that which was created in him ever change for the born again?



Man's ability to 'choose' was not altered by the born Again experience. But instead of having to be vexed by the law of Sin and the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience; the saints received the Holy Spirit that they by nature would walk in the law of God- who is working in them both to will and to do His good please. Man can still choose to sin after they are born again- but what he has that he did not have before is a whole new desire.





_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/4/30 11:15Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
See anything odd about this that we should continue to hold to the notion that the gospel message is nothing more than a message about redemption?



I am anxious to understand what you mean here. I dare not speculate- I just am trying to understand what you are driving at. ;-)


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/4/30 11:17Profile









 Re:

Quote:

RobertW wrote:
Quote:
What was it in Adam, created in him, that God would not-could not come against? Second question: Does that which was created in him ever change for the born again?



1st answer) God would not choose (select) for Adam. This is how He designed things. Man has to 'choose'. God sets before man life and death - blessing and cursing and says; "Make your selection."

Josh 24:15

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

I think one of the more telling 'choices' in all the Old Testament is when Lot 'chose' the well watered plain of Jordan. He 'lifted up his eyes' and beheld a land that was like unto Egypt as you come unto Zoar. What was it that took hold of Lot's decision making faculties? What did he see when he lifted up his eyes? Wherein did he find pleasure? And while the Children of Israel walked out their tent doors centuries later to behold the glory of God upon the Tabernacle- all Lot seen- with his tent pitched towards what he lifted up his eyes to see (Sodom); was the madness of sin. Abraham chose the 'Mountain' and it took to the end of Lot's life to choose the 'Mountain'- but by then it was too late.

Quote:
Does that which was created in him ever change for the born again?



Man's ability to 'choose' was not altered by the born Again experience. But instead of having to be vexed by the law of Sin and the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience; the saints received the Holy Spirit that they by nature would walk in the law of God- who is working in them both to will and to do His good please. Man can still choose to sin after they are born again- but what he has that he did not have before is a whole new desire.



Can't find anything in that I would argue with, Robert.

Lets conclude somethings:

1. Man, even though in a fallen state, retains the ability to make choices, one of which can be to choose God or reject Him.

2. Because of #1 man is not, nor ever has been depraved in toto. Only by a contnual rejection of God does he run the risk becoming a "castaway".

3. God's Grace can be resisted.. even by the born again. [apostasy] per Heb 6.6

 2007/4/30 11:26









 Re:

Very simply, Redempotion is NOT the core message of the Gospel. Though necessary it is but but the doorway to becoming a son. Take a look at the eastern adoption program Isaiah speaks of: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given" as the psttern laid out for those who are of the great cmmandment and per John 17.23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one;

 2007/4/30 11:33









 Re:

delete

 2007/4/30 13:19









 Re:

delete

 2007/4/30 13:19
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4791


 Re:

Brother Robert wrote:

Quote:
I think this is true also. Yet it seems for Cain he had no excuse like that. Who was the sinful influence in his life that taught him to murder?



John writes...
1 John 3:
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.

The Devil taught Cain according to this Scripture...

In Christ
jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/4/30 22:50Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4791


 Re:

Brother Robert wrote:

Quote:
The fact is they in most cases did not want God when they saw Him. They saw the mountain of fire and wanted to flee in terror. They saw Moses' face and put a vail on it. They did not want to seek God's face as did Moses. Moses wanted to 'see' God- but could not and live. The people did not as much as want the residue of God before their eyes. And this is a people called out to be a light in the world! What are we to make of those who have not but the light of creation and conscience as their guide?



Every man has been given no excuse before God. God desires that all come to repentance. Paul teaches in Romans 2:
THEREFORE you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.
Rom 2:2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.
Rom 2:3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

Most men throughout history have despised "the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance."

By observing the law given on Mount Sinai no one is justified for all sin, yet by the covenant given to Abraham, all that live by faith are saved by the goodness of God.

The work of faith was demonstrated by Abel who was the first prophet. He choose to listen to the Father of heaven and rejected the father of this world. Since the fall of man, this choice has been given to all men.

Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Faith is the means by which man has access to the grace of God. Those who repent and turn towards Him because of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering find righteousness in the light of life, His name is the Holy One of Israel.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/4/30 23:12Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.



So as a child of the devil was Cain 'taught' to murder or did it come naturally? Was it a 'teaching' from Satan or did Cain simply act out the nature of his father who was a murderer from the beginning?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/1 8:24Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy