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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Total Depravity & Entire Sanctification

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RobertW wrote:
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Why?



Because to say so would be ultra unbiblical and utter heresy. Man is not evolving into God. This is the teaching of Joseph Smith.



I don't care whose teaching you say it is. And "evolving" is your word, not mine. "Changed into His likeness would be a better way of stating it.

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But Jesus was born and Christ now has a new Body in which to dwell. Is that not so?



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John 1 tells us that the Word that was with God in the beginning [i]became[/i] flesh and dwelled among us. This was God taking on humanity.



And He returned to Heaven bearing the nail prints in His hands and feet. What more does it have to say that He was the first of first fruits? What does that mean if not something He wasn't in actuality...That is was something in His flesh, He became?

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Wherefore in all things it behoved [u]him to be made like unto his brethren[/u], that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 2:17)


Christ was never brethren nor was He a Son. He was always God in the Second person. Jesus was the only begotten of the Father. He is now both Son of Man and Son of God.

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God was made like unto man- man is not being made like unto God. Not in the sense that He/She becomes 'sons' of God as if their were all little gods.



When we see Him we shall be like Him.

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I urge you to reconsider and renounce such a belief as this.



On what basis? Sorry, but you don't know your Bible.

 2007/5/4 11:38









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philologos wrote:
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How do you know that?? Given what Jesus said, I am forced to disagree. Why would it be a violation in your thinking tto believe God would have such a plan for Himself established in divine-human beings with Jesus Christ as the head?

Then why deny divinity for man when Jesus, the Man, was the first of the first fruits of it all?


OK, now you are speaking plainly. You do believe that man will become divine. Your use of the phrase 'divine-human beings' of others than Christ make it clear that you are propounding that the human will become divine.

Now, I hear clearly what you are saying... and you are wrong.



Not in the least... :-) :-D

Hebrews 2:10 (KJV) 2: For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings[passions]

[emphasis mine].

 2007/5/4 11:40









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PreachParsly wrote:
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Ormly wrote:
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PreachParsly wrote:
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But Jesus was born and Christ now has a new Body in which to dwell. Is that not so?



Jesus existed long, long, long before He was born of a woman.



So did Adam and you and I too.

Ephesians 1:4-5 (KJV)

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,



Where does that verse say we existed before the foundation of the world? It says he chose us, it doesn't say we existed before the foundation of the world.



And that is where you all miss it. Read Paul's letters in that light and they will all read differently...... and more to the point of why we were created in the first place..

 2007/5/4 11:45
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

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On what basis? Sorry, but you don't know your Bible.



Perhaps not. But This one thing I know, I will [u]never[/u] be Divine and neither will anyone else.

For there is [u]one God[/u], and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (I Tim 2:5)

There is one God and we are not- nor shall ever be [i]Him[/i]. We are sons in the sense that we are made into His image. Perhaps we need to discuss your concept of God? Surely you do not believe that man will so day be as God Almighty?




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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/4 11:55Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

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On what basis? Sorry, but you don't know your Bible


This seems to be your stock in trade answer for people who disagree with you. I have said it before and I repeat it, you don't want discussion, you want surrender.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/4 11:58Profile









 Re:

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RobertW wrote:
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On what basis? Sorry, but you don't know your Bible.



Perhaps not. But This one thing I know, I will [u]never[/u] be Divine and neither will anyone else.

For there is [u]one God[/u], and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (I Tim 2:5)

There is one God and we are not- nor shall ever be [i]Him[/i]. We are sons in the sense that we are made into His image. Perhaps we need to discuss your concept of God? Surely you do not believe that man will so day be as God Almighty?




When we see Him we will be like Him. Now whatever that means to you I can surely live with. The point is: Christ didn't come to Earth just to redeem man. If you can see that then this discussion has been worthwhile.

 2007/5/4 11:59









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philologos wrote:
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On what basis? Sorry, but you don't know your Bible


This seems to be your stock in trade answer for people who disagree with you. I have said it before and I repeat it, you don't want discussion, you want surrender.



Nope. Just a few folk who can make proper distinctions when reading their Bible.

 2007/5/4 12:01
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

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Now whatever that means to you I can surely live with. The point is: Christ didn't come to Earth just to redeem man. If you can see that then this discussion has been worthwhile.



I'm all for liberty of conscience. But in these forums we have to understand that impressionable people are watching and can be influenced by what is said. Therefore it is my obligation to challenge any doctrine that would be considered heretical from a historical Christian perspective. Many things are debatable. And if a person wants to believe they will someday be exactly like Christ through and through- that's their perogative. But I cannot in good conscience let such a view go unchallenged in the market place of ideas such as these forums.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/4 12:26Profile









 Re:

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RobertW wrote:
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Now whatever that means to you I can surely live with. The point is: Christ didn't come to Earth just to redeem man. If you can see that then this discussion has been worthwhile.



I'm all for liberty of conscience. But in these forums we have to understand that impressionable people are watching and can be influenced by what is said. Therefore it is my obligation to challenge any doctrine that would be considered heretical from a historical Christian perspective. Many things are debatable. And if a person wants to believe they will someday be exactly like Christ through and through- that's their perogative. But I cannot in good conscience let such a view go unchallenged in the market place of ideas such as these forums.




Then by all means, do so. However, know before you challenge. I don't believe you are there. And the fact I hold to that doesn't give you the right to accuse me of heresy. I have submitted my scripture and you haven't refuted it.

 2007/5/4 12:50
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

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However, know before you challenge. I don't believe you are there.



How does one know they "are there?" Can you share how you know if someone is "there?"


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Josh Parsley

 2007/5/4 13:10Profile





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