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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Total Depravity & Entire Sanctification

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 Re:

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philologos wrote:
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In this is the grooming for divinity to happen. In this is how a child of God comes into son-ship and joint-heir-ship, by adoption.


What does it mean for 'divinity to happen'?



That's a great question and the answer is Jesus' own Mt Transfiguration experience. That event can be viewed as Jesus' [the man] graduation. THEN, He came back down to make it possible for us to enter into the same experience. This is the glorious message of the Gospel that makes redemption>>new birth, so vitally important.

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You have the order of these the wrong way about. Most versions have very plainly something similar to the KJV“And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:” (John 20:22 KJVS)emphusaO is to 'blow'. Christ breathed 'on' them. This is of the nature of an 'anointing' an external process which the context makes clear is focused on commissioning rather than regeneration.



I don't think so but rather it has the profoudness and exactness as when God breathed on Adam and Adam became a living soul. Now if God, after, giving instructions to Adam to fill the Earth; pro-create, no less than this is what the great commission is to be about for His Disciples. However, don't leave Jerusalem before venturing out.

Neither orthodoxy or reform has ever taught this.

 2007/5/3 13:11
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Neither orthodoxy or reform has ever taught this.



Amen. And that's why we need to be very circumspect.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/3 13:24Profile









 Re:

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RobertW wrote:
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Neither orthodoxy or reform has ever taught this.



Amen. And that's why we need to be very circumspect.



Does that mean, "get the message out"? 8-)

 2007/5/3 13:31
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Does that mean, "get the message out"?



:-? We need to examine it very carefully. It needs to be submitted for destructive testing. :-)


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/3 14:55Profile









 Re:

Quote:

RobertW wrote:
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Does that mean, "get the message out"?



:-? We need to examine it very carefully. It needs to be submitted for destructive testing. :-)



Why not begin here:

Ephesians 1:1 (KJV) 1: Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the [i]saints[/i] which are at Ephesus, AND to the [i]faithful in[/i] Christ Jesus.......

The Holy Spirit’s Ministries

Galatians 4:4-7 (KJV)But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ........
........... So then, brothers, we are not obligated to the flesh to live according to the flesh, 13 for if you live according to the flesh, you are going to die. But if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 All those led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry out, “ Abba, Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God’s children, 17 and if children, also heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—seeing that we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him. Romans 8.12

 2007/5/3 15:10
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
That's a great question and the answer is Jesus' own Mt Transfiguration experience. That event can be viewed as Jesus' [the man] graduation. THEN, He came back down to make it possible for us to enter into the same experience. This is the glorious message of the Gospel that makes redemption>>new birth, so vitally important.


What does your phrase 'for divinity to happen' mean?

Quote:
I don't think so but rather it has the profoudness and exactness as when God breathed on Adam and Adam became a living soul. Now if God, after, giving instructions to Adam to fill the Earth; pro-create, no less than this is what the great commission is to be about for His Disciples. However, don't leave Jerusalem before venturing out.


The disciples were commissioned before they received the Spirit, so was Paul. They were told to remain in Jerusalem until they were clothed upon with power from on high. This power, as expressed in Acts 1:8 was the 'power to be...'. As Josh said earlier 'dunamis' implies inherent power not add-on power.

Many 'holiness' preachers have taught that the indwelling of the Spirit began at Pentecost. The indwelling Spirit could not be given until Jesus had taken his seat.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/3 15:23Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

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Why not begin here:



I understand that we are 'sons' but certainly not sons in the same sense that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God. Those who are led by the Spirit are human sons of God. I utterly challenge the notion that they are somehow Divine in the same sense as Christ is Divine. That is an LDS heresy.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/3 15:39Profile









 Re:

DEleted duplicate

 2007/5/3 16:18









 Re:

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RobertW wrote:
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Why not begin here:



I understand that we are 'sons' but certainly not sons in the same sense that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God. Those who are led by the Spirit are human sons of God. I utterly challenge the notion that they are somehow Divine in the same sense as Christ is Divine. That is an LDS heresy.



The new born in Him is likenned to Jesus, the Babe in a manger, a child to become a son brought into glory.. "A Child is born and a Son given".

But[and]we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 2 Corinthians 3:18 (KJV)

Per John 20.22 and Acts 2...fulfilling: Joel 2:28-31 (KJV)And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit [b]upon[/b] all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH MODERN DAY CHARISMANIA


 2007/5/3 16:21
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
But[and]we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 2 Corinthians 3:18 (KJV)



But this does not imply that we are becoming divine. That would be to escalate the order of man's being from man- beyond angel's to being equal with God. I have to reject man being transformed into the image of God from glory to glory in any way that would render man divine.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/3 16:43Profile





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