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Discussion Forum : General Topics : HAS the CRASH BEGUN?? - Andrew Strom - COMMENTS?

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Goldminer
Member



Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re: Really grieved

It would grieve my heart if Andrew no longer came on this forum and shared because of unkind comments. He is a valuable memeber of the body and should be respected as such.

[color=6600CC]Col 4:6 Let your speech [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.[/color]

[color=6600CC]Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; [/color]

[color=6600CC]2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

[/color][color=6600CC]1Ti 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat [him] as a father; [and] the younger men as brethren;[/color]
[color=6600CC]1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.[/color]


Until we see this prophecy fall to the ground we have no right to judge it. It could happen tomorrow.

also there were prophecies that came other than through the men who spoke what became scripture.
One spoke of Paul being bound and the other about famine coming. I couldn't find the references or I would share them here. Also the word says not to despise prophecy, just to judge it.

[color=6600CC]1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings. [/color]


My personal view of the reason finacial collapse may be coming to the USA is because the church is abusing her provision. Squandering it on selfish interests rather than seeking where God would have us use it. What will we do when we are denied our precious electricty and hot showers, and God forbid that our cars not run. Most of the rest of the world don't have to worry about gasoline, they don't have cars. Every member of our family has one here. Hear me, I am speaking about the church. We have dimonds galore, ipods, manicures, bubble bath, braces for our teeth, boom boxes, zillions of books, a computer in every room, software that we never use, designer clothers, twenty pairs of shoes, I could go on and on. We will reap what we sow. If we don't sow and keep it all for ourselves, thereby allowing starvation to those Christ sends us to, we will reap financial breakdown and it will be the churches fault, including me.

So what if Andrew spoke what has been spoken before, it seems nobody is listening. Have we changed our lifestyles? Are we weeping between the porch and the altar? Are giving up our TV and computer time to seek His face? No we just like to talk about it until:

[color=6600CC]Mat 24:36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. [/color][color=6600CC]Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [/color][color=6600CC]Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, [/color][color=6600CC]Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [/color]

Art Katz says we need to have an eternal mindset. That is the truth. It is time to stop laying up and begin to reap the harvest with whatever resources we have available. This is why the early church had power. They were not bound by earthly things.


_________________
KLC

 2007/3/15 16:53Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Until we see this prophecy fall to the ground we have no right to judge it. It could happen tomorrow.



This may seem biblical but the injunction to judge the prophecies given in the gatherings is not a judgement of the accuracy of the prediction but of something different.

The utterances given in the assembly could not be judged by their future fulfillment but by a concensus within the community of the prophets.

The problem that many modern 'prophets' produce is that their declaration that it is a 'prophecy'lifts their utterance into a different realm of authority. People then believe because 'it is a prophecy' rather than because they are discerning the nature of the utterance. Despise not prophesyings is appropriate only if we accept the utterances as prophecies in the first place.

The intimate nature of the gathering in view in 1 Corinthians are so different from the atmosphere of a public forum. It is impossible for the kind of fellowship which was to exist in a local gathering to function on a website. In my view this is why it is inappropriate for a forum to be used in this manner. The atmosphere of 1 Cor 14 plainly presupposes eye-contact (1 Cor 14:30).

I have never had any contact with Andrew or any other self-styled prophets who post on this site. Because it is impossible to monitor such proclamations I question their place on such a site. This is not a personal controversy with Andrew or with any others but simply a matter of principle.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/3/15 17:46Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The problem that many modern 'prophets' produce is that their declaration that it is a 'prophecy'lifts their utterance into a different realm of authority. People then believe because 'it is a prophecy' rather than because they are discerning the nature of the utterance. Despise not prophesyings is appropriate only if we accept the utterances as prophecies in the first place.



It goes beyond that. "HAS THE CRASH BEGUN?" is a question that carries no prophetic authority (nevermind the all-caps).

"Thus saith the LORD" carries authority [i]if and only if[/i] the things about which he speaks comes to pass, and at the time the LORD specifies.

A "bad feeling" about current events that is not prophecy.

As Christians gifted by God with brains and discernment we are 100% obligated to give every so-called prophet and his or her prophecy a shakedown from our Bible (at the most) or on google (at the very least) to see their track record.

And to everyone who thinks I and others have been unfair or cruel to Andrew, ask yourself these question:

"Should I test every spirit and see if he's of God? Is it biblical to ask/search for Christian references?"

Have I been unreasonable in checking other Christians' opinions?

Then...

"How do I deal with sin? When I have it in my hand? Do I roll it along playfully through my fingers like a coin? Or do I tear it up mercilessly because I utterly hate it? And when I find sin, do I warn others?"

A prophet knows who, what, where, when, why, and how because the LORD of heaven and Earth condescends to tell him.

This "probing" sort of prophecy that includes words such as "could", "I think", and "I believe" and that ends with a question mark [i]has to stop[/i].

 2007/3/15 18:41
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1403


 Re:

Hi,
I don't want to offend anyone on this thread and I know its been pretty intense;I would like to agree with the section below:
[size=x-small]

It goes beyond that. "HAS THE CRASH BEGUN?" is a question that carries no prophetic authority (nevermind the all-caps).

"Thus saith the LORD" carries authority if and only if the things about which he speaks comes to pass, and at the time the LORD specifies.[/size]

I also believe America will be judged as one famous preacher said"If God doesn't judge America then he owes Sodom And Gomorah an apology!"

The thing is their is no get out clause with prophecy either your're saying something from God or your not.We can all have an educated guess about what is going to happen but a word from God is a word from God.Their is no need for any Ambiguity about it.
Prophets have to be held to account on what they predict not just in the next life but in this one also.
The consequences of wishy washy prophecy is very damaging and disheartening(this is not a comment on this thread but in General)
rgds Staff()
:-(

 2007/3/15 19:16Profile
Andrew_Strom
Member



Joined: 2006/8/24
Posts: 98


 Re:

I post here with a great deal of trepidation -
sure that everything I write will be torn to pieces and the worst motives ascribed to me.
Indeed it appears I am regarded as so evil and twisted for simply posting this article. It certainly gives me pause. SermonIndex has always been one of my favorite sites - which I have recommended to many people in the past.

I tremble to put forward a couple of tentative thoughts about apparent misunderstandings. I am sure I will be ripped to shreds for daring to do so, but here goes...

Firstly, some people obviously think that I put forth this article as a "prophecy". No - it is not a prophecy. It is an article. I would say it contains about one paragraph that is "prophetic" in nature. Here is that paragraph-

"I remember very vividly kneeling down by my bed soon
after the towers fell on 9-11 and hearing God clearly speak to me-
"The HORNS of AMERICAN FINANCIAL POWER HAVE FALLEN."
To me this was a profound and shocking word, which I published
that same week. I felt strongly that in following years we would
see this play out before our eyes. -The unraveling of US financial
power in the earth. (I was made to understand it was like the
Titanic - which hit the iceburg but did not sink for many hours. In
a lot of ways, the sinking of that vessel was symbolic of Britain's
decline as a world power from that point on. -I know this is shocking
to contemplate regarding the US. -It certainly shocked me at the time)."

As far as I am concerned, the rest of it is an 'ARTICLE' about what is currently happening in the markets, and talking about past sermons and articles, etc. -Which is why it totally suits it's title - "HAS the CRASH BEGUN?" -The whole thing is more of a 'commentary' than any kind of prophecy - and it is simply asking this question and calling people to prayer.

I realize now that I have dared to speak up on this matter, I can expect to be subject to barbs
and abuse, but I felt the need to clarify that point.

I am wide open and awaiting the points of your
daggers, gentlemen. You can now tear into me as you see fit.

Thankyou.

-Andrew Strom.

 2007/3/15 21:09Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Crash

Quote:
I post here with a great deal of trepidation -


Can really appreciate that Andrew ... same here. But maybe for somewhat different reasons, in part could but wish we all were more discerning of our words and conduct amongst each other and before the Lord.

Quote:
sure that everything I write will be torn to pieces and the worst motives ascribed to me. Indeed it appears I am regarded as so evil and twisted for simply posting this article. It certainly gives me pause. SermonIndex has always been one of my favorite sites - which I have recommended to many people in the past.


Worth bringing up Greg's earlier admonishen;


Quote:
Please do not publically deride and accuse an individual member on sermonindex.net there is no place for this here.

[b]MUST READ: SermonIndex Forum Disclaimer / Community Rules[/b]
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14144&forum=13&3



At the same time do hope that this is not all seen in such light or with that expectation. It can be just as troubling to hear things being cast as all conclusive, that may not have been your intention but we do tend to get a lot of "this forum" or the site in total being addressed as such when things get ... An off hand thought as a general rule for everybody;

Don't [i]make[/i] it personal and don't [i]take[/i] it personally.

Without the first the second becomes more unlikely.

Think there is some good comments made in regards to the idea of prophecy and how it does not work well in this setting ... something we have had a great deal of discussion about and with a lot of generated heat no less. I too have a very difficult time with the way it is ... presented\defended in our day but thank you for your clarification here.

No daggers invited or needed people.




_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/3/16 0:00Profile
Goldminer
Member



Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re:

I just want to add that we all need to be careful of, using a google search as a basis for judging anybody, and especially labeling anybody. You will find anybody who has ever prophecied since the bible was written in that search.

I have found most of these sites to be negative about everything. I imagine most of our names are in there as well. It would seem the only ones who have all the wisdom and understanding is the producers of those sites. I want to know who made them the authority. Did God give them a badge that says look no further.

We need to judge each individual in the light of the word, not someones say so.

Is a word self promoting? Does it draw attention to oneself? I think of the old testament examples of "he never prophecies anything good about me". Do they speak a ear tickling word made to make you feel good, or do they speak what lines up with the word.

[color=0000CC]Eze 13:10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and [there was] no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered [morter]:[/color]

[color=0000CC]Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse [that was] red: and [power] was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.[/color]


I am certainly no prophet but I can see the pot seething all around me. People are on their last nerve. Several, including a church deacon, have committed suicide. Even the unsaved sense something looming in the not too distant future and their hearts are failing them for fear.

I was looking at the glorious beauty of spring here is Alabama this morning and musing to myself that I better be thankful for the glorious moment because they probably won't last that much longer. I sense difficulties ahead. I am not fearful because I am in Him. He will never leave me or forsake me. If someone kills me I just see His face that much sooner.

All I can say is Come Lord Jesus.

I will wrap this all up by saying Andrew I love you and KingJimmy I love you too. I love you all. I need you all. You don't know how much this wonderful forum has meant to me. It is so wonderful to connect with saints who are serious about their walk even if we don't all agree on every issue.


_________________
KLC

 2007/3/16 0:37Profile
jordanamo
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 397


 Re:

I don't like the article Andrew posted. While it was stating the obvious, my main problem was the capitalization of words which sort of 'disengaged' me from catching any point you were trying to make. Understand, when you put CAPS it signifies YELLING-- not a thing I like to see, especially in a "doomsday" type of article.

Thus, I judged the character and tone of the article by the caps. It is in the same vein if someone started yelling this to my face in a gathering of believers of some sort that a crash was coming.

In short: I can't stand it. If you wish to post, please don't use caps in a continual form like you did. Using it once or twice to signify something of immediate importance is okay-- but overdoing it like you did is complete "over-kill."

So, you may be somewhat dissuaded that I am judging the content of your post by such a thing as this-- if so, welcome to the Internet, where conversational rules are not that much different than in real life :)

As to the actual content-- again, it's quite "stating the obvious"-- an economic crash is something that eventually will come about, as to the magnitude-- unless you've received a "thus saith the Lord"-- no one knows.

Jordan

 2007/3/16 0:42Profile
myfirstLove
Member



Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


 Re:

Good word Goldminer. Thankyou.


_________________
Lisa

 2007/3/16 0:54Profile
Andrew_Strom
Member



Joined: 2006/8/24
Posts: 98


 Re:

Sorry about the Caps, Jordamo. Bad habits die hard, I guess.

Regarding doing a "Google Search" on Christian leaders, I agree that great care is needed. It is simply dangerous to take the word of "Heresy-hunting" sites about anyone. I have seen so many falsehoods presented as "fact" about leaders. If you do a search on "David Wilkerson" or "Charles Finney", you will be amazed at how many people despise them or accuse them of all kinds of things! Imagine the field day that Wesley's critics would have had if they'd had the Internet! Wow!

Is it really fair to make up our mind that someone is a "heretic" or
whatever - just because of hearsay or gossip from some 'anti'
website? Or should we find out for ourselves what they really stand for?

Imagine the critics of Jesus himself - if they had a website about Him.
Or perhaps the apostle Paul. What would his enemies write about him?

I once called up one of these guys who has a whole web-page devoted to me. He described me as being part of the "Word of Faith mob". He also stated that- "Andrew Strom's hybrid Revival Warfare inventions are simply a kinder and gentler version of the Kansas City Seven, the Manifest Sons of God terrorist program of Bill Britton, and the Vineyard Movement. The jackboot hate and manipulation is subdued, and the tough guy mystique and other world visions are more dominant."

And he went on to say- "Strom seems to me to have dropped away the tongues frenzy of more tawdry Charismatic leaders, and divine healing and Word of Faith fantasies seem to have been morphed into newer versions of zeal. But, Strom is making more and more solid associations with the Rhema and MSOG mob be giving credibility to their insane visions."

Now, anyone who knows me and what I stand for would virtually find all of that hysterical!

I actually called this guy on the phone and explained to him very gently that I was on record from the very beginning as OPPOSING the 'Word of Faith'/ Prosperity gospel very strongly. I said I was also known for publicly renouncing the
flakiness of the 'Prophetic' movement (and in fact the movement itself), I had never even been part of the Vineyard, and I was strongly opposed to the 'Manifest Sons of God' doctrine - and had never supported it at any time.

I stated this over and over.

All he had to do was visit my site and listen to my sermons to see I was a historic Revival/ holiness guy through and through. Yet he did not change one word on his website! The lies are still there! I don't even know where he got his information. I don't think I have ever been accused of those things before by anyone - but that doesn't matter. It is not about "truth" or "fairness". I don't even know why they do it.

I guess that is an extreme example - but so many lies are out there. So I encourage people to look into things for themselves, rather than believe every rumor or innuendo about a leader. Yes - there is much deception abroad, but we don't want to be 'Pharisees' either. We are to
"judge righteous judgment".

It is pretty sad.

God bless you all.

Andrew Strom.

 2007/3/16 1:34Profile





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