The Jewish Roots of the Christian Faith

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Revive Us Again by Duncan Campbell

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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : The Jewish Roots of the Christian Faith

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rookie
Member

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4445
Hershey PA

Re:

Br. Ron wrote:

Quote:

ut in the terms of ‘rulership’ indicated at the beginning of your post, I would see that as being from the time that the Father ‘made Him both Lord and Christ’ at His ascension and enthronement.

Does your view uphold the doctrine of the trinity?

When the writer of Hebrews writes:

Heb. 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience."

Is this exhortation of entering His rest a result of the work of the New Covenant?

Quote:

We have a linear sequence of events here; rejection, resurrection, ascension, enthronement, outpouring. The rejected stone has become the head of the corner; God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Is the person of Jesus in the Godhead contained within our linear thought of time?

In Christ
Jeff

_________________
Jer 15:16 Your words were found, and I ate them, And Your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart; For I am called by Your name, O LORD God of hosts.

2004/12/1 12:12

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RobertW
Moderator

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4550
Independence, Missouri

Re:

Quote:

Is the person of Jesus in the Godhead contained within our linear thought of time?

I would have to answer that by saying that time is a creation of God and whether or not the answer is yes it would have no bearing on the doctrine of the Trinity because God does not exist within one dimension of (linear) time. This is where we cease to fully comprehend, but yet can apprehend the Trinity. Mathmatically we can add a variable to either time or space and all sorts of things become possible. Add two dimensions of time and two deminsions of space and you could be in two places at once. :-?

_________________
SermonIndex.net Moderator - Robert Wurtz II

Obedience is better esteemed with God than acquired knowledge, it is the most important lesson -fundamental to the gaining of all spiritual knowledge from God. (GW North)

2004/12/1 12:30

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philologos
Member

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

Re:

Quote:

{Quote:

ut in the terms of ‘rulership’ indicated at the beginning of your post, I would see that as being from the time that the Father ‘made Him both Lord and Christ’ at His ascension and enthronement.

Does your view uphold the doctrine of the trinity?

I believe it does. The wonder of John 1:14 is that the Word has become ( and remains) flesh (human). The Eternal stepped into history and in His manhood has a linear history. His manhood continues and it is as ‘the man Christ Jesus’ that He continues His mediatorship (1Tim 2:5). In fact it could not be otherwise, as priests have to be taken from ‘among men’ (Heb 5:1). The judgement will also be in the hands of ‘that man whom He has ordained’ (Acts 17:31). Hebrews tells us that this identification with our race was absolutely necessary. Without incarnation there could be no such priesthood.

[b] Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might [u]become[/u] a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted. [/b] (Heb 2:17-18 NASB)

If you follow the reasoning in those verses you will see that having a linear history, in which He [u]became[/u] man, was the only way in which He could enter into priesthood. He is only 'able' because He 'became'. This is where your view constantly breaks down. For you Christ cannot ‘become’ He can only ‘be’. The question is not does my view uphold the doctrine of the trinity but does your view uphold the doctrine of the incarnation?

His continuing priesthood requires his humanity, but his humanity had an historical point of entry and that point in history marks the traceable history of Christ which continues to this day.

_________________
His/yours
Ron B
www.biblebase.com

"Love perfecteth what it begins;
 Thy power doth save me from my sins; 
Thy grace upholdeth me. 
This life of trust, how glad, how sweet; 
My need and Thy great fulness meet, 
And I have all in Thee.

Jean Sophia Pigott (1845-1882)

2004/12/2 0:31

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rookie
Member

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4445
Hershey PA

Re:

Br. Ron wrote:

Quote:

For you Christ cannot ‘become’ He can only ‘be’. The question is not does my view uphold the doctrine of the trinity but does your view uphold the doctrine of the incarnation?

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Jesus became man so that we would have knowledge of the way, the truth, and the life. The things He suffered was His demonstration of the love He has for us. It is nothing for Him it is all for us, so that those who obey Him will glorify the Father.

"And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him." Hebrews 5:9

He is the one who created eternal salvation. He is the "I AM." You are correct in describing my understanding.

Quote:

For you Christ cannot ‘become’ He can only ‘be’

In Christ
Jeff

_________________
Jer 15:16 Your words were found, and I ate them, And Your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart; For I am called by Your name, O LORD God of hosts.

2004/12/3 8:52

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philologos
Member

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

Re:

oops double posted :-?

2004/12/3 10:55

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philologos
Member

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

Re:

Quote:

He is the one who created eternal salvation. He is the "I AM." You are correct in describing my understanding.

But the mysterious glory of the incarnation is that the [b]I am[/b] genuinely [b]became[/b] flesh. God [b]became[/b] what He had not been. There are scriptures which indicate that this is not the end of that story; [b]And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. [/b] (1Co 15:28 KJV)

2004/12/3 10:55

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rookie
Member

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4445
Hershey PA

Re:

Br. Ron wrote:

Quote:

There are scriptures which indicate that this is not the end of that story; And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. (1Co 15:28 KJV)

You are correct in stating this is the end of the work that God does through Christ. However all men have fallen under the work of Christ. Listen to the verses just prior to your quote.

21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming."

When Paul writes, "even so in Christ all shall be made alive," is he refering to only those who died after Christ died? What men would make up,"those who are Christ's..."?

In Christ
Jeff

_________________
Jer 15:16 Your words were found, and I ate them, And Your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart; For I am called by Your name, O LORD God of hosts.

2004/12/3 14:59

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philologos
Member

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

Re:

Quote:

When Paul writes, "even so in Christ all shall be made alive," is he refering to only those who died after Christ died? What men would make up,"those who are Christ's..."?

[b]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, [u]if[/u] so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now [u]if[/u] any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. [/b] (Rom 8:9 KJV)

2004/12/3 23:38

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ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 847
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re:

Quote:

rookie wrote:
When Paul writes, "even so in Christ all shall be made alive," is he refering to only those who died after Christ died? What men would make up,"those who are Christ's..."?

I am sensing a serious case of dejavu, is that biblical? 8-) The dejavu part I mean.

_________________
Zeke

...do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? Romans 2:4

2004/12/4 0:07

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philologos
Member

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

Re:

Quote:

I am sensing a serious case of dejavu, is that biblical?

Question: Did I tell you my deja vu joke?
Answer: No
Question: Did I tell you my deja vu joke? 8-)

2004/12/4 0:22

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