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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : The Jewish Roots of the Christian Faith

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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

welcome friend,

Quote:
Jews and non-Jews can and should celebrate these ten LORD's Festivals as a building bridge of relationship for witnessing and disciple-making.


'can and should'?
:-o [i]there may be trouble ahead...[/i]
just joking... for now. ;-)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/11/19 15:14Profile
RabbiEukel
Member



Joined: 2004/11/18
Posts: 54
Southwest Missouri

 Re: The LORD's Festivals

Shalom ... help me to understand your "joke for now" when I am encouraging and equipping the Body of Believers through the celebration of The LORD's Festivals. These ten Festivals embrace the GOD-given relationship with each generation. The opportunity to witness and make disciples over a celebration complete with visuals, sounds and tastes is, I submit, a divinely inspired, instructed invitation to make His Word known to each generation. So, help me get the joke, because the punch line is beyond me? Love and Prayers, Rabbi Eukel


_________________
Rabbi DF Eukel

 2004/11/20 17:58Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Bro. Eukel,

Bro. Ron was writing concerning the admonishion that Christians, especially non-Jewish Christians, 'should' or 'ought' to participate in the festivals (May he correct me if I am wrong). His "just kidding for now" comment relates to a potential debate over the necessity of the Jewish festivals for Gentile believers. I have put my hand in that 'fan' before in other ways, so I want to at least establish a buffer zone as we head into more Jewish Roots discussions (One of my favorite subjects).

As a background of history on this topic on this forum, it has been very sensitive due to certain claims that Messianic Jews, such as Art Katz, have made concerning eschatalogical postures that the Gentils ought to be actively persuing in these 'last days.' Bro. Ron has met Art personally and I have been to his conference. We do not all agree on the partaculars of the roles between Jews and Gentiles and if you begin at the first part of this thread you can see how quickly it shot out of control. I am still trying to mend fences over the early parts of this thread, as the Lord allows. It has been a very sensitive topic. If I might lovingly request, please read through the correspondences on this thread (not necessarily the articles) if you have not already to get a feel where everyone is coming from as we RE-start our discussion. It will help us all not make false assumptions about where one another is coming from. :-)

God Bless!

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2004/11/20 18:12Profile
RabbiEukel
Member



Joined: 2004/11/18
Posts: 54
Southwest Missouri

 Re:

Shalom, Robert ... I appreciate cautious beginnings. Seasoned Believers are careful about argumentation that leads to separation, as the Wisdom Writings of Scripture clearly instruct. The purposeful selection of my words "can and should" as you correctly discern is not the word "must" or "necessity" as you used. It is sad that some apologists need to be "right" rather than righteous. ADONAI's Wisdom challenges us to both walk and talk in a style and substance that does not diminish, dilute or destroy those He has made in His image. It is a challenge. The thread and articles for "Jewish Roots of our Faith" as you know, Robert, is lengthy. It will take some time to digest. However, if new participants are to be encouraged and equipped by such a meaningful exploration as the "Jewish Roots" I would suggest that the moderators and early thread entrants from time to time compile a synthesis of what has been fruitful in previous discussion. Perhaps, because "it shot out of control quickly" it would be wise also to compile a synthesis of discussion threads that have proved not fruitful. I look forward to both the process of learning and teaching "Messiah's Messages in the Moedim." Love and Prayers, Rabbi DF Eukel, Ph.D.


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Rabbi DF Eukel

 2004/11/20 18:42Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Sir,
Grace and peace.

Quote:
Shalom ... help me to understand your "joke for now" when I am encouraging and equipping the Body of Believers through the celebration of The LORD's Festivals. These ten Festivals embrace the GOD-given relationship with each generation. The opportunity to witness and make disciples over a celebration complete with visuals, sounds and tastes is, I submit, a divinely inspired, instructed invitation to make His Word known to each generation. So, help me get the joke, because the punch line is beyond me? Love and Prayers, Rabbi Eukel

It a something of an 'in-joke'. Robert has pointed to some of the earlier collisions on this kind of topic, and he and I took a fair while to recover our poise! :-o I am very happy with the 'can' of your comments. Any situation 'can' be used as an opportunity to share the love of God. As long as they do not compromise conscience I am happy to share cultural experiences with any ethnic groupings and to seek the opportunities that the Lord gives at such times.

The 'can' is fine. It was the 'should' that reminded me of the choppy waters at the start of this thread.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/11/20 18:49Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Perhaps, because "it shot out of control quickly" it would be wise also to compile a synthesis of discussion threads that have proved not fruitful. I look forward to both the process of learning and teaching "Messiah's Messages in the Moedim."



Amen. Say, you are in Mount Vernon? I live in Independence, MO and used to go to Jewish Roots Institute with Jerry Feldman in Overland Park KS.
:-)

I would like to compile a synthesis, but I'm so busy keeping up. I'll have to put it on the list.

There were some choppy waters in the beginning as Bro. Ron stated. I heard a definition of tact recently; "it's the abaility to light a fire under a person without making their blood boil." I suppose I didn't have as much tact as I needed.

Blessings,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2004/11/20 19:09Profile
RabbiEukel
Member



Joined: 2004/11/18
Posts: 54
Southwest Missouri

 Messiah's Messages in the Moedim

Shalom, Ron (philologus) ... I trust that you will continue to give room for other Beleivers who may select words different from your own. Words do convey ideas. Ideas may be conveyed by those words that need the loving correction of Seasoned Beleivers who have developed the Scripturally required relationship to be able to effectively speak into that persons life and values. It seems, as one who is just entering the "Jewish Roots" thread, that some "poise recovery" is still occuring. I am reminded of the early growth stage of the talmidim. They wanted to come down hard on those who were not on the "inside or part of" their group. YESHUA constrained not the "outsiders" but the "insiders." Rav Sha'ul, as the emissary to the goyim, had a similar seasoned understanding as YESHUA about those who preach-teach out of wrong motives. He wrote, "so what ... Moshiach is preached." I will openly confess here that Rav Sha'ul's seasoned understanding on this point challenges me. I want purity in words, ideas and motives. Then I am reminded of the leadership development of our father Avraham and Moshe. I will curtail additional thoughts, for now, Ron. I am looking forward to the process of both learning and teaching "Messiah's Messages in the Moedim." I trust that you see the waters no longer choppy, but YESHUA's Shalom spoken. Love and Prayers, Rabbi DF Eukel


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Rabbi DF Eukel

 2004/11/20 19:11Profile
RabbiEukel
Member



Joined: 2004/11/18
Posts: 54
Southwest Missouri

 Location Location Location

Shalom, Robert ... Yes, I had noted earlier that we are in close proximity. Besides our home in Mount Vernon we also have an investment home in Grandview that we are working on to sell. Feldman is of UMJC, correct? I am sure you are also familar with R' Wolkenfeld of Or HaOlam? Joel Chernoff and his daughter, Sharon, will be celebrating in concert Erev Shabbat with that congregation next week. Robert, I am sure you are learning to give and receive GOD's Great Grace with each relationship building opportunity He requires of you. As I have written before, I look forward to the process of both learning and teaching "Messiah's Messages in the Moedim." Love and Prayers, Rabbi Eukel


_________________
Rabbi DF Eukel

 2004/11/20 19:22Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re: Location Location Location

Actually I studied under Rabbi Jerry Feldman from about 1997-2001 (give or take). I don't know all the folks you mentioned as I have been out of those circles for a while. No problems, it was really a logistical issue. I enjoyed the teachings for the most part. I attended a 1st century Passover service and Yom Kippur. He has a radio program on AM 760 unless that has recently changed. That's how I got involved with the ministry.

I also look forward to you sharing insight into the issues. This thread has died down, but its good to see it alive again. I think there are a lot of helpful things we can learn.




_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2004/11/20 19:30Profile
RabbiEukel
Member



Joined: 2004/11/18
Posts: 54
Southwest Missouri

 Messiah's Messages in the Moedim

Shalom, Robert ...So we have established a calmness on the waters it appears. How good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell together in unity (echad - I noticed on one of your responses early on in this thread you have the correct understanding of the difference between echad and yachad) ... for it is there The LORD's blessings are forever! Tehillim 133. I look forward to the process of both learning and teaching "Messiah's Messages in the Moedim." Love and Prayers, Rabbi Eukel


_________________
Rabbi DF Eukel

 2004/11/20 19:42Profile





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