Thanks Brother. Now it is starting to come together even better. When you said that I immediately related it to the "seal" (GK. Sphragis) of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1) which enables us (through the Holy Spirit) to do all things through Christ who strengthens us. Instead then of having the sign of circumcision (for those who would not) they have "this seal" -- the Lord knoweth them that are His (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30; II Corinthians 1:22; II Timothy 2:19). I don't know why, but I never really thought of it that way. You may have circumcision, but do you have the 'seal' (the Holy Spirit). I understand that part; but I just never put it together. We have "no confidence in the flesh" we are "empowered by the Holy Spirit."That is a tremendous means of dealing with a person who does not believe in Original Sin. We still would have to convince them though that they were sinners (that is the Holy Spirit's job I know). But we would need a message or an answer on that.Another piece in this puzzle! Praise God! God Bless,-Robert
_________________SermonIndex.net Moderator - Robert Wurtz IIObedience is better esteemed with God than acquired knowledge, it is the most important lesson -fundamental to the gaining of all spiritual knowledge from God. (GW North)
[b][size=small]WALKING IN THE SPIRIT[/size][/b][b][size=small]Introduction [/size][/b][b][size=xx-small]By Robert Wurtz II [/size][/b]Since the beginning, God's Holy Spirit has been striving with man to see them brought to repentance. We read in Genesis 6:3... Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not put up with humans for such a long time, for they are only mortal flesh. In the future, they will live no more than 120 years." (NLT) The religious leaders in power after the resurrection of Christ were recipients of the message of Stephen who told them they do always resist the Holy Spirit, as their fathers did, so did they (Acts 7:51). They went so far in resisting God that they likewise killed the prophets. As it is written... O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. (Matthew 23:37,38 KJV) The greatest key to living a victorious life is our willingness to accept the free gift of the fulness of the Holy Spirit. The reason people refuse to be full id because they refuse to surrender control. Who do you want in control? You or God?God used several different analogies to demonstrate this in His word. Perhaps one of the great Old Testament examples is Ezekiel 36:27... And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. KJV The New Testament uses a similar passage saying... For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure (Philippians 2:13).The Coming of the Paraclete In John 14:16 we read: "I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may be abide with you forever, even the spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him"... And again in I Corinthians 6:19... "What! Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God?'Old Testament ExampleIn Leviticus 26:12 we read... 'I will walk among you and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people."Standing in the Power of GodMy message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.(I Corinthians 2:2-5 NIV) Paul tells us plainly that mans wisdom is impotent to try to energize us to sustain us in our Christian lives. When a person is "Full of the Holy Spirit" they are energized by the dunamis of God. Walking in the Spirit will keep a person from fulfilling the lusts of the flesh. As it is written... This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. (Galatians 5:16-18) This is the great struggle with Christians. Every man is tempted when he/she is drawn away of their own lust and enticed (James 1:14). This is the lust of the flesh that is lusting (a desire that seeks to take control) against the Spirit. This lust is revealed to be of sin in that Paul said he had not known 'lust' except the law had said "thou shalt not covet." This is one of the Ten Commandments. 'Lust' is a strong desire that seeks to control a person.When we begin to 'drift away' from God and we cease in our efforts to be "full" of the Holy Spirit, an authority vacuum begins to form. The 'flesh' will sieze the opportunity to try and take control- if but for a moment. This is why we must be FILLED with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18). This is why we must not quench the Holy Spirit.(I Thessalonians 5:19) Quenching the Spirit starts us down a path to grieving the Holy Spirit. Do you go into temptations against the strivings of the Holy Spirit in your conscience? Then you are quenching and grieving the Holy Spirit. When He sees us heading towards temptation, He warns us by pricking us in the heart (Acts 2:37). In this way He will lead us into all truth (John 16:13). If we cooperate in this leading of the Spirit we are not under the law. In our next study we will look at how a person can place him/herself at a great disadvantage in the fight against sin (the good fight of faith) by "sowing to the flesh" or by ignoring the mandate to be 'filled with the Spirit." The outcome of the battle is greatly determined by these two factors. Do you sow to the flesh? Do you seek to be filled with the Spirit? If you can answer yes to those two Christians the chances are great that you will have victory in your Christian life; if you answer NO to either of them you are likely struggling with sin and in a "sin-ask forgiveness"- "sin-ask forgiveness" state of Christianity. God Bless,-Robert
[b][size=small]WALKING IN THE SPIRIT[/size][/b][b][size=small]Part 2 (Don't Sow to the Flesh)[/size][/b][b][size=xx-small]By Robert Wurtz II[/size][/b]The tendency among some is to believe that the only solution for getting people to live righteously is to place them under a 'law.' When we see this an understanding of walking in the Spirit must againt be taught. It is impossible to do with the law (Old Covenant) what only being dead to the 'law of sin' can do. The law was weak through the flesh because it only has the power to revive rebellion in our hearts against God. You can't die to the law of Moses unless you likewise die to the 'law of sin.' If you are in the 'flesh' you come under the law- but if you walk in the Spirit you are free from the law.If we submit ourselves to God and turn to trust in Him in genuine repentance- we will be born again. The 'old man' is dead as is signified by baptism and buried with Christ. We come out of the water to walk with Christ (as it were) in the power of His resurrection- knowing Him also in the fellowship of His sufferings. When we do these things we have not destroyed the law- but we fulfill it and establish it. ***OBSTACLES TO WALKING IN THE SPIRIT***The following are not legalistic 'laws' to impose on oneself, but are biblical methods to advise us in our control of the flesh. "I Can Handle It?" I heard the story once that a man who was once an alcoholic wanted to show the devil after he was born again that he could 'handle' the bottle now. So, he carried a bottle of whiskey in his back pocket as a show of strength. "I'm going to show the devil I'm stronger than this bottle." Well, you guessed it, it wasn't long until the top was popped on the bottle!Whether that story was ever real or a parable, a lot of Christians do the exact same thing in their lives. They think they can show the devil that they can handle certain things that have always been a stumbling block to them. This is not a show of strength; it is utter foolishness. If you make provision for the flesh to fulfill its lusts- the flesh will take what you give it!We are warned in Hebrews to do two things:1) Lay aside EVERY weight2) Exercise your senses to discern good from evilLAY ASIDE EVERY WEIGHTIf there are two things defeated Christians do it is to refuse to lay aside weights. They know the need to throw their VCR, DVD player, or Internet service into the trash and won't do it. Some may not need to, but others know they need to. They know they need to trash their wine collection and won't do that either. Or they may know they need to stop calling that certain friend who is a serious hinderance; but again, they find an excuse (as with the other weights) to keep calling them (or keeping the weights around). If you are allowing stepping stones to exist in your life you know that you will walk that path in a time of weakness! When you are hungry, angry, lonely or tired- you are VULNERABLE to the flesh (C. Stanley h.a.l.t.). Having some BIG gaps back to you sins allows God time to provide a way to escape. When you have your sin beside your bed or in the 'fridge' it is kind of hard to maintain victory. The devil wants you to be able to sin SO QUICK that you have already sinned before your conscience can kick in. Thse are your BESETTING sins I am referring to. True Christians have a general HATRED of sin. Sometimes strongholds still exist and have to be dealt with. It is foolish to try to tempt yourself by making all kind of provisions for the flesh. Blessed is the man that condemneth not himself (herself) in the thing that he/she alloweth. EXERCISE YOUR SENSESNothing sows to the flesh like allowing instruments of sin in our homes and then we activate them like a seed spreader sowing seeds to the flesh. Before long the flesh rises up into a GIANT and we feel helpless to do anything. Our appetite for sin increases and our appetite for God decreases. Can this happen to Christians? Sure! That is why Paul said he had to bring his body into subjaction (literally in Greek... punch his flesh under the eye) lest when he preached to others he- himself would be disqualified (adokimos). Control your senses. Control what goes in your eyes and ears and mouth, etc. Exercise your senses to discern good and evil and you will better control your tongue to speak good and not evil. Your tongue gives you the print out of the inside of your heart. What comes out of my mouth? Talking about sin in a nonproductive and helpful way is dangerous! Talking suggestively with little catch slang or nasty talk is very dangerous. The tongue is the rudder that is guiding the ship. Control the senses and control the tongue.God Bless,-Robert
[b][size=small]THE HEIRS[/size][/b][b][size=small](A Brief Look at Church Leaders Before 135 CE)[/size][/b][b][size=xx-small]Compiled By Robert Wurtz II[/size][/b]According to Dr. Ron Moseley of the American Institute for Holy Land Studies, the first fifteen bishops (presidents) of the Church at Jerusalem were relatives of Jesus. All of whom are of Hebrew descent, and according to Eusebius was “to have received the knowledge of Christ in purity, so that they were approved by those who were able to judge of such matters, and were deemed worthy of the episcopate."The entire Church prior to Acts chapter 10 was comprised of believing Jews who also kept the law (the Nazarenes). The first, then, was James, the half brother of the Lord; the second, Simeon; the third, Justus; the fourth, Zacchaeus; the fifth, Tobias; the sixth, Benjamin; the seventh, John; the eighth, Matthias; the ninth, Philip; the tenth, Seneca; the eleventh, Justus; the twelfth, Levi; the thirteenth, Ephrem; the fourteenth, Joseph; and finally, the fifteenth, Jude. These are the bishops of Jerusalem that lived between the age of the apostles and the Bar Kochba Revolt (135 CE). After the death of James the half brother of Christ we see the dynastic succession of the Jerusalem Church. Only relatives of Jesus (termed desposynoi, or "the heirs") were appointed to the bishop (president) position. After 135 CE and the Bar Kochba revolt the Jews were banished from Jerusalem and the city was renamed Aelia Capitolina. The Jews were forced to leave for 100 years. During this time the Church was turned over into the hands of non-Jews and the quest to rid the Church of all things Jewish began. The first non-Jewish leader of the Church was Mark. This was nearly the middle of the second century. The Church would meet from house to house while James was still alive and James chaired the first Church council meeting in Acts 15. This meant two things: 1) that there was definite leadership in the early Church and 2) the Church would fellowship in their own houses. They would likewise find themselves worshipping in the synagogues as Jesus said that they would be beaten in those synagogues (as they were). Paul always preached in synagogues when he could. When the division finally came the Jewish Christians scattered to the Mountains of Pella. Once the birkat ha minim curse was devised at Yavneh (Jamnia) the separation between the circumcision and the believing Jews (Nazarenes) was enevitable. When the split between the Jews and the Synagogue had taken place and the Temple was destroyed- the church began drifting towards Rome. Much persecution was happening in the Roman world against Christians also. The question in our day- which is one only God knows is… what does God want the Bride to look like? Does He want it to look like the early Church pre 70 CE? As we continue in our discussions it is interesting to note that some see a return to the “book of Acts” style Church to also include Messianic Jews in leadership- as they were in the book of Acts in Jerusalem. Although there were many non-Jews in the Church outside of Rome it can be argued that they were all in submission to Jerusalem as is evident in Acts 15. God Bless,-Robert *** Notes***Eusebius History of the Church (HE 4:5:3-4; 5:12:1-2) Moseley, Ron. “Yeshua” A guide TO The Real Jesus And The Original Church. Ebed Publications c 1996
[b][size=small]One "Yachid" or One "Echad"[/size][/b][b][size=small](A Brief Look ay The Trinity)[/size][/b][b][size=xx-small]Compiled By Robert Wurtz II[/size][/b]Eloiyim is a plural noun. When we recognize that the Shema tells us that God is ONE we may understand God to be a plural unity when we know the meaning of ‘echad.’. The Shema reads:Shmai Yisrael Adonai Eloheynu Adonai Echad. Hear O’ Israel the Lord your God is ONE.The Hebrew language has two words that can be translated "ONE": echad and yachid. Whereas yachid (yah-keed) refers to the number one (i.e., absolute unity), echad (ek-kawd) refers to a composite unity. An example of this is in the book of Genesis chapter 2, verse 24, where it says that a couple joined together in marriage shall become one flesh. Since the Shema uses the word echad, not yachid, it is reasonable to say that God's essence or nature is that of a composite unity.Echad:Jesus teaches us that His desire is that believers be ‘echad’ (plural unity) even as He and the Father are ‘one’ (plural unity). In his prayer found in John 17, Jesus prays. . . “that they may be one, as thou Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one [echad] in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."(vs. 21) The manifestation of this echad, this binding together in unity, should result in love for the Lord and for each other. "That the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."(vs. 26) Jesus is our example of echad with God. If a person says that he is echad with God but does not manifest love, then by definition, echad could not exist. To be one with each other we must walk in step with God and His will. To do this we must walk in the power and influence of the Holy Spirit. Eloyim:It is not sufficient to say that the term Eloyim simply means the plurality of God’s greatness and majesty as it forms a bias against the clear biblical teaching that God exists as one substance and 3 persons. This issue that we would have trouble with is understanding unity in the sense that the Godhead is in absolute one mind and one accord. This is where understanding what Jesus meant when He prayed that we would be ‘one’ even as He and the Father are ‘one.’ When we say God is three persons we do not mean the “three headed god” concept that is often thrust upon the doctrine; but a triunity of persons that exist in perfect harmony. Gary Hedrick writes; “Each Person of the Godhead was in eternal fellowship with the other two Persons before the world was created. All three were actively involved in the Creation: the Father (Genesis 1:1), the Son (John 1:1; Colossians 1:16), and the Ruach Hakodesh, or Holy spirit (Genesis 1:2).For centuries, the rabbis have struggled with Genesis 1:26, where God says, ". . . Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: . . ." The plural noun Elohim (God), used in conjunction with the plural pronouns "us" and "our," argues persuasively for the existence of a plurality within the Godhead.But doesn't the idea of divine plurality contradict the Jewish Shema, which declares that ". . . The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deut. 6:4)? Not when we realize that the Hebrew word echad (one) is often used to designate a compound unity rather than a simple unity. Note that the same word is used in Genesis 2:24 when Adam and Eve were married and became basar echad, or "one flesh." This is not intended to be an exhaustive study but will serve to introduce you to some of the issues from a Messianic Jewish viewpoint. God Bless,-RobertNotes:Gary Hedrick "Seven Things God Was Doing Before Genesis 1:1"http://www.cjf.org/pages/7things.htm
[b][size=small]Ritual Immursion[/size][/b][b](The Origin of Christian Baptism)[/b][b][size=xx-small]Compiled By Robert Wurtz II[/size][/b]Many thousands of people have died over the issue of water baptism. It is not my intent to further such strife within the Church. With great reluctance I wish to consider baptism as it was formerly known as 'ritual immersion'. The Innovation for Novation (the Origin of 'Clinical Baptism')Pope Cornelius I wrote that as Novatian was about to die, "he received baptism in the bed where he lay, by pouring" (Letter to Fabius of Antioch [A.D. 251]; cited in Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, 6:4311). Dr. Roy Blizzard writes... "From the beginning, baptism had been by immersion for the remission of sins. Novation, at an adult age, grew sick. Nigh unto death, he called for baptism. He received only clinical baptism by sprinkling, only on the condition that, if he got well, he would be properly baptized. Following his recovery, he was ordained to the priesthood and rose to the highest rank in the Roman clergy. The controversy arose over whether one unscripturally baptized could attain to such an office." N.H. Pius in his book "An Outline of Baptist History" writes... "Having raised baptism to a sacrament, it was but natural that these church authorities should insist upon baptism under all conditions. So that when immersion in water was not possible, some form as near to immersion as possible was to be administered. While there would be no baptism without immersion, they felt that something must be done, hence, when there was not sufficient water in which to immerse, they poured water upon the head. Now as baptism had been vitiated as to its fundamental principle, other inovations soon followed. In the third century we find the introduction of clinic baptism (from kline, a couch), the baptism of sick persons confined to their beds. Of this Cramp says: "It was not Baptism, properly so-called, as they were only sprinkled with water or had water poured on them. The reason alleged for this departure from apostolic practice was the necessity of baptism to the salvation of the soul, and the consequent danger of depriving it, lest the sickness should terminate in death. Thus one error led to another. If those clinics recovered they were not baptized afterwards, but they were not admitted to the ministry. Novation, however, was an exception to the rule. He had been sprinkled or received a pouring on his head, when his dissolution was hourly expected. After his recovery, his eminent qualifications for the ministry induced the churches to deviate from the established custom, and he was ordained."" ANY exception to a law soon become THE law as has been found in many cases throughout history and practical life. Sprinkling was sanctioned by the Church at the council of Revenna in 1311 CE and the choice was offered between sprinkling and immersion. History of the Jewish MikvehThe term mikveh in Hebrew literally means any gathering of waters, but is specifically used in Jewish law for the waters or bath for the ritual immersion. The building of the mikveh was so important in ancient times it was said to take precedence over the construction of a synagogue. Immersion was so important that it occurred before the high Priest conducted the service on the Day of Atonement, before the regular priests participated in the Temple service, before each person entered the Temple complex, before a scribe wrote the name of God, as well as several other occasions.Josephus tells us that even during the years of war (66-73 A.D.) the laws of ritual immersion were strictly adhered to (Josephus Wars, 4:2:05). Immersion was required for both men and women when converting to Judaism. There were three prerequisites for a proselyte coming into Judaism: Circumcision, baptism, and sacrifice (Maimonides, Hilkh. Iss. Biah xiii. 5). Immersion was required after a woman has her monthly cycle (Leviticus 15:28). This quite possibly was what was happening with Bathsheeba when David saw her. The timing of the pregnancy concur's with such a proposition. Immersion was also required for pots and eating utensils manufactured by a non-Jew (Encyclopedia of Jewish Religion p-263). The Water RestrictionsThere were basic restrictions on the water used in the mikveh including such rules as: (1) the mikveh can not contain other liquid besides water. (2) The water has to be either built into the ground or be an integral part of a building attached to the ground. (3) The mikveh cannot be flowing except for a natural spring, river or ocean. (4) The water can not be manually drawn. (5) The water cannot be channeled to the mikveh by anything unclean. (6) The mikveh must contain at least 40 sa'ah or approximately 200 gallons of water.The term sa'ah is an ancient Biblical measurement equivalent to approximately five gallons. All six requirements come from the original Hebrew words found in Leviticus 11:36. Rabbi Yitzchok ben Sheshes said the amount of 40 sa'ah was derived from the idea that the largest normal human body has a volume of 20 sa'ah, therefore the amount of water needed to "nullify" this body is double this amount or 40 sa'ah.Why Be Immersed?To the ancient Jew, the mikveh was a process of spiritual purification and cleansing, especially in relation to the various types of Turmah or ritual defilement when the Temple was in use. Although God has not revealed all the meaning of the mikveh, it is obvious because of the amount of space given to it in Scripture, and the effort of Jesus to fulfill it, the command is of utmost importance.How Immersion Was DoneJewish baptism has never been taken lightly, but in ancient times immersion was to be performed in the presence of witnesses (Yebam. 47b). The person being baptized made special preparations by cutting his nails, undressed completely and made a fresh profession of his faith before the designated "fathers of the baptism" (Kethub. 11a; Erub 15a). The individual stood straight up with the feet spread and the hands held out in front. The candidate would totally immerse themselves by squatting in the water with a witness or baptizer doing the officiating. Note the New Testament points out the fact that Jesus came up straightway out of the water (Matthew 3:16).The earliest drawing of Christian baptism was found on the wall of a Roman catacomb in the second century showing John standing on the bank of the Jordan helping Jesus back to shore after self-immersion.Ancient sages teach that the word mikveh has the same letters as Ko(v)Meh, the Hebrew word for "rising" or "standing tall," therefore we see the idea of being baptized "straightway."God Bless,-RobertNotes:Ron Moseley; Lecture notes from Arkansas Institute for Holy Land Studies (Jewish Culture, History of the Church, Jewish Roots).Dr. Ron Moseley "Yeshua" A Guide tothe Real Jesus and the Original Church: Ebed publications C. 1996Josephus Works "Wars of the Jews"Dr. Roy Blizzard; "Heresies, Controversies, and Schisms in the Early Church" Part IIhttp://docsouth.unc.edu/church/pius/pius.htmlhttp://www.catholic.com/library/Baptism_Immersion_Only.asp
Robertthank you for this comprehensive introduction to Novation's innovation etc. I have been chatting with Jeremy regarding the Didache. This non-bible book is fascinating and gives a wonderful glimpse into life at the end of the 1st century. It seems to be much earlier that Ignatius in its church government, hence my statement that it is late-1st century.The Didache (paragraph 174:7) has some instructions regarding baptism; that it was to be performed "in running water, But if you have no running water, then baptize in some other water; and if you are not able to baptize in cold water, then do so in warm. But if you have neither, then pour water on the head three times..."The Greek for 'running water' is literally 'living water' an original Hebrew idiom. I can't help but link it to the Lord's words to the Samaritan woman. The pouring three times appears to be the earliest reference to the Christian use of a mode of baptism other than immersion. In my imagination I see condemned prisoners being 'baptized' in such a way. It was only valid when 'proper baptism' was unavailable.Edersheim, in the LIfe and Times of Jesus the Messiah has some valuable details on Jewish baptism of Proselytes that is also very instructive and clearly, full immersion.
_________________His/yoursRon Bwww.biblebase.com"Love perfecteth what it begins; Thy power doth save me from my sins; Thy grace upholdeth me. This life of trust, how glad, how sweet; My need and Thy great fulness meet, And I have all in Thee.Jean Sophia Pigott (1845-1882)
Bro Ron,That is a great resource you have there (Didache). I have heard of people being baptized in bathtubs (somehow). At the Jewish Roots Institute there was a lot of talk about ritual immersion. The topic seemed to come up all the time. I have seen lots of photos of modern excavations that show the mikveh as part of the peoples homes and how the rain troughs would fill them up. I don't know why it seemed to be such a big deal to them- but finding them seemed to be a sort of vendication of sorts (?). Some even contend that Bathsheeba had a mikveh and it was there where David saw her. They kind of look like the foundation of a house but a lot smaller. The people were said to dip themselves strait down into the water and come back up under their own power. They call John the Baptist "Yohannan the Immerser." Its all interesting. Personally I always approach baptism from a different angle. I believe we should be immersed; at the river if ones around, but where ever you can find enough water to do it. My view is thus:Jesus said "My MEAT (nourishment) is to do the WILL of Him that sent me." And in another place He said "I have meat to eat that you know not of." He told us "Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled." That person who hungers and thirsts for righteousness is a person BORN of the Spirit. New born babies don't have to be begged to eat. The come out wanting something to eat and we best have it or its going to be a long night! (My 6 children all did at least). The milk of God's word are the simple things that are fit for a babe in Christ. What could be more 'simple' than to give a command "be immersed in water" in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Anyone no matter how much you know about God can do that simple thing.The baptism of Christ is different from John's baptism- (Christ's baptism, as I see it is baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus). They can call the name of Christ also if they want- but everything we do (as Spirit Full believers) we are doing as unto Christ and in His name as His ambassadors anyway. The 'Jesus name only' (UPC) group miss this as a distinction between John's and Christ's baptism and baptise in "Jesus name only." They forget that there was only about 2 months or so between Mark 16 and Acts 2. The formula for baptism don't change in 2 months I suggest. So then, baby is born and it desires to do the WILL of the Father because of their new nature. It used to be their "meat" to sin against God- now it is their "meat" to do the will of Him of whom they are born of. The first drops of milk (as it were) is to HEAR the commandment of baptism and then be a doer of the work. Not when they hear, but when their new nature desires to straitway obey (be a doer of) this command it is evidence of their regeneration. Phillip straitway baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch (the Messianics say he was not a Eunuch, but anyway), BECAUSE he says something like "There's some water, lets do it NOW." Phillip then left and He went by tradition and helped establish (along with Mark) the work in Alexandria Egypt. If he was good enough to go that he desired to OBEY Christ straitway- with an Isaiah scroll in hand he was good to go. That DESIRE allowed Phillip to leave the man to himself. Far different from us having to constantly beg people to obey a lot of times!? How do we know that the Eunuch was good to go? He had an immediate hunger and thirst to fulfill ALL righteousness- even as Christ. So what I do is- when a person is saved I IMMEDIATELY offer water baptism- if they say YES lets do it- I feel confident that there was conversion- if not, I see no cause to look further as they have no real desire to do what Christ commanded. This is NOT to suggest baptismal regeneration; but I would have to wonder why a person would say NO to that offering of baptism if they believed it was their Lord's will. Some were never offered baptism. What shall we say to them? Do what the Holy Spirit is convicting. I have gone back and done a lot of things that had no real bearing on my salvation. I just wanted to be a doer of the work. It is my MEAT. God Bless and Best Regards in Christ,-Robert http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/features/ask/2001/sep14.html
Robert,I agree that the biblical precedents concerning baptism within the New Testament indicate that people were mostly baptised immediately when they received Christ as Lord and Saviour. My church also baptise people as soon as possible, as long as we discern genuine faith. We are sometimes accused by others for holding a doctrine of baptismal regeneration; it is an unfortunate misunderstanding.I suppose the practice in church history (2nd century and onwards?) of having [b]catechumens[/b] go through a period of instruction before being accepted to communion has lingered on until even today.Have you ever read the works of N. T. Wright? His exposition of Paul is superb, especially in finding the connections with Paul's Jewish background and training. I find fresh insights from his books.Agent001
Hi Agent 001,Actually I am not familiar with N.T. Wright other than what I quickly found in a search. I have used the works of David Stern as it pertains to Messianic Jewish Commentary.The issues of baptism are enormous. There is a whole prespective on the subject from a Messianic point of view that correlates baptism to betrothal to Christ. Woe, if we ever got into that one we would be here a while!The fear seems to always be that if I get baptized then I'm abandoning sola feday because it is a 'work.' But we must remember it is not the work that saves we are saved unto good works. It is the desire of the regenerated to do God's will. And if Christ was baptized and He was sinless- why would we not do likewise after He has taken away our sins? It seems a lot of baptism issues have been birthed from the vantage point of assuring we are not trying to be saved by 'works." I have a cousin who is so "faith alone" that he believes that to preach repentance is to preach heresy and he trys to build a good case for it. It all stems from a misunderstanding about what is happening. God Bless,-Robert
