SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Amazing Grace - William Wilberforce / John Newton movie. (released 02/23/07)

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

Quote:
It's a PG movie, all of the profanity in the movie was probably what was in the trailer.



How much profanity is ok for the child of God to pay God's money to hear?

Krispy

 2007/2/28 12:07
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Krispy,

I understand your heart in this matter, but I want to ask you honestly -have you avoided all movies with all profanity or are you just putting your foot down now?


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/2/28 12:16Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

I saw the movie just this week, and thought it was good. I didn't really hear much swearing.

It is not a "Christian" movie as the Gospel is not preached throughout, but there are some interesting quotes and scenes.

One in particular is when John Newton says to Wilberforce, "I am a great sinner, and Christ is a great Saviour." There is also an interesting scene where the camers zooms in and does a close up of the title page of "The Rise and Progress of Religion in the Soul" by Philip Doddridge, which is an excellent book.

There is a sense of the struggle though within Wilberforce's life that many of us go through as well. He wants to quit everything "secular", and serve God alone and this plays out in different ways as well.

Overall I would say if your conscience is troubled by wanting to see it, then do not go. If you are at liberty to go then go, and maybe it will kick off some conversations about why a man would do such a thing.




_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/2/28 12:29Profile









 Re:

Instead of picking through this movie with a fine tooth comb finding every fault possible (which i have no doubts there are many faults), let me look on the more positive side for a moment.
It is my hope that this movie will bring many to study the lives of these men mightly used by God who have gone before us. May many pick up the works of men like Wilberforce, Newton and so on and study thier lives through numerous biographies written. Here is an quote from John Piper taken from the life of Charles Simeon titled [url=http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Biographies/1460_Brothers_We_Must_Not_Mind_a_Little_Suffering/]Brothers, We Must Not Mind A Little Suffering'.[/url]

[i]We see very few models today whose lives spell out in flesh and blood the rugged words, "Count it all joy, my brothers, when you fall into various trials" (James 1:3). When historians list the character traits of the last third of twentieth century America, commitment, constancy, tenacity, endurance, patience, resolve and perseverance will not be on the list. The list will begin with an all-consuming interest in self-esteem. It will be followed by the subheadings of self-assertiveness, and self-enhancement, and self-realization. And if you think that you are not at all a child of your times just test yourself to see how you respond in the ministry when people reject your ideas.

We need help here. When you are surrounded by a society of emotionally fragile quitters, and when you see a good bit of this ethos in yourself, you need to spend time with people – whether dead of alive – whose lives prove there is another way to live. Scripture says, "Be imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises" (Hebrews 6:12).[/i]

 2007/2/28 12:35
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37289
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
I tend to agree with TJ on this one. The profanity knocks it out for me.


Personally my belief is why worry about it. It's the world that made it and it should be the world that watches it. I personally cannot get excited over worldly hollywood movies anymore, I praise God He has taken that away from me. It excites me much more to get into a prayer meeting for 3 hours or worshipping God.

We don't need to cling to this movie as a hope of God reaching the world with the gospel, we need to stand and give testimony ourselves. We are a much better testimony with the power of God then any hollywood movie no matter how many "millions" they put into it.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2007/2/28 13:33Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4501


 Re:

Hello...

I watched the film on the advice of a close friend of my fiance.

When we went to the theater, we were surprised that it was obviously filled with quite a few Christians from a wide variety of denominations. There were pentecostals, Assembly of God, Baptists, Methodists, Nazarenes, non-denominational evangelicals, non-denominational charismatics, non-denominational pentecostals, etc... There were even a few apparent Mennonites. Most of them appeared quite awkward, as you could tell that they were "out of their element."

The film was actually well made. It tells the story of a relatively unknown but remarkable individual from history. William Wilberforce was central in the abolition of the slave trade in the United Kingdom. As a wealthy young politician, William Wilberforce was one of the most notable evangelicals of his time. While the film does not reveal some of the more evangelical zeal or beliefs of William Wilberforce, it doesn't hide his faith in God either. And yes, the film does mention the name of Jesus.

The film begins by showing the toll that the 15 year struggle against slavery took on William Wilberforce. Both his health and demeanor were obviously affected. He was a bright young figure in the UK's political scene. The movie then shows the journey that took him to this point in his life. He was converted after college and after he was already involved in Parliament. We also learn that he had faith while still a child, Wilberforce regressed during his adolescent years.

While the film didn't show his actual conversion, we understood that it took place shortly after obtaining a position in Parliament. We see that Wilberforce would remove himself into his property in order to find a lonely place for prayer. He would lay down in the wet England grass and speak aloud to God. The film shows that his butler finds him doing this, and he begins to share his thoughts to the butler.

We learn that one of his best friends from college (William Pitt) is going to become Prime Minister. Pitt recognizes Wilberforce's witt, talent and understanding of the political structure, and he desperately wants Wilberforce to support his cabinet. However, Wilberforce is considering "dropping out" of politics in order to focus his life on preaching the Gospel.

Finally, Pitt invites a group of ministers to a dinner held at the Wilberforce home. Wilberfoce reveals his dilemma. He has been undergoing an intense inner-struggle. He wants to choose between a life of ministry and a work in politics. These men convince Wilberforce that he can do BOTH. They remind him that he can use his abilities and position in Parliament to fight against certain sins and unjust activities (such as slavery). Finally, Wilberforce agrees.

The film shows that young William Wilberforce was a dear friend of John Newton, the former slave trader that became a minister. Newton, of course, wrote the lyrics of [i]Amazing Grace[/i]. The film portrays the strong conviction that Newton felt for his role in barbarically transporting 20,000 slaves. History tells us that Newton continued participating in the slave trade for a few years following his conversion (even though he was morally and spiritually opposed to it). The film shows that, as an older man, he held deep sorrow for this. He encourages Wilberforce to "sink the ships of the wealthy slave traders" by his participation in Parliament. As he grew old and blind, John Newton dictated his intensive knowledge of the slave trade as a testimony to help in Wilberforce's work.

The film does show Wilberforce's late courtship and marriage to Barbara Ann Spooner. Wilberforce was in his late 30s, and Miss Spooner was an encouragement to continue his fight against slavery. As someone noted, the clothing that Miss Spooner wore in the film was somewhat revealing (at least in one scene, because of a low cut top). I'm not certain how "authentic" her dress was, but I imagine that it was reflective of the times. However, I certainly doubt that a woman would have worn such a dress in front of a very zealous evangelical Methodist!

The film concludes by showing Wilberforce's strategy in ending the slave trade. Instead of attacking the practice -- he laid the "axe to the root" of the problem. He keenly cut off legal protection for ships flying the British flag into the West Indies. This cut off about 80% of the slave trade. Shortly thereafter in 1807, Parliament ended the slave trade by a vote of 41-20 in the House of Lords and 283-16 in the House of Commons. This is remarkable in that it was nearly 60 years before slavery became illegal in the United States! The British became the first world power to outlaw slavery (even though Scotland had outlawed it a few decades earlier).

As far as the use of profanity, I believe that there were two instances. None were used by believers in the film, and since one of them was British in nature, my fiance didn't even recognize the word. Yes, it was disappointing to have heard a film using profanity. However, I might point out to the critics on this website that [i]The Cross and the Switchblade[/i] uses two clear instances of profanity as well (including the same word). Yes, use of profanity is quite sad and a display of an unclean mouth. But so is the pretentious backbiting, gossip and slander that is sometimes seen in these forums. I'm not "defending" the use of profanity (by no means!), but I simply want to display the hypocrisy of pointing out a "mote" while neglecting the "beam." If someone has the audacity to watch a football game (and commercials) on Sunday afternoons ("paying" for it with their time, energy and devotion) and then criticize a film such as this -- then they might want to inspect themselves for "beams." In my opinion, this film was far less blatant than Sunday afternoon football -- or even many "Christian" books.

I admit that I liked the film. However, I must stress that I was not [i]entertained[/i] by it. I found that it was simply a "moving historical text." There are a great many people (particularly Americans) who have never heard of William Wilberforce and his contributions against slavery and animal cruelty, as well as toward free education and church missions. It was nice to see a secular film display evangelicals in a good light -- and particularly the contributions that a believer made against a moral evil. The world seems to have lost the knowledge that morality has historically been shaped by God's Word. So I would approach this film from an educational aspect rather than through an evangelical approach.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2007/2/28 13:47Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

ccchhhrrriiisss,

Great post, I had already planned on going and seeing it but now I definitely want to see it!


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/2/28 13:57Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I understand your heart in this matter, but I want to ask you honestly -have you avoided all movies with all profanity or are you just putting your foot down now?



Our walk with Christ is an ever growing process, and the honest answer is that over the last year God has really been convicting me of things like what we are talking about here. I dropped movies with the "s" word and the "f" word a long time ago, and movies that spit on Christ by using His name as a cuss word.

But over the last year he has been convicting me about even "mild" profanity, and the fact that we use the money He has blessed us and provided us with in order to expose ourselves to it.

Until the day I die I pray He continually reveals my sin to me. Thank the Lord He doesn't drop it all on us at one time. We couldn't handle it. But He is long suffering... and He takes His time with us. He is faithful to complete the good work He has started in us.

But it doesn't matter if He has convicted [b]ME[/b] of this in the last 12 months, or 12 years ago... the truth of the matter is still the same. How much profanity is too much for us to spend God's money to hear?

Krispy

 2007/2/28 14:03
vico
Member



Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 258


 Re:

In the light of eternity... things like that don't hold much weight with me. I sat down the other night and watched a movie for the first time in 2 and a half years. even though it was "Christian Movie" I was still disappointed, and later i wished i hadn't (i didn't want to in the first place, but i watched it to avoid division and conflict.).

I like what Greg said: "It's the world that made it and it should be the world that watches it."

[ edit ]
Amen Krispy, your words... they make me smile :-)

 2007/2/28 14:13Profile









 Re:

Quote:
If you are at liberty to go then go



Even if your "liberty" is in disobedience to scripture?

Eze 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the [b]holy and profane[/b], and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, [b]filthy communication out of your mouth[/b].

2Ti 2:16 But shun [b]profane[/b] and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding [b]profane[/b] and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called...

1Ti 4:7 But refuse [b]profane[/b] and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

Phi 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, [b]think on these things[/b].

You can not avoid hearing profanity in this world... but you sure dont have to pay to hear it... with the money God has given you.

Krispy

 2007/2/28 14:14





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy