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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Healing

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roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: healing - is God's business

aj said:

Quote:
And a person who is content even with the most extreme disabilities with Gods grace isn't a awesome testimony?


Ben responded:
Quote:
I didn't say it wasn't an awesome testimony, what I said was that it is not as awesome a testimony, as someone who is healed.



Having been through illness, and experiencing it in my family, I can honestly say that we just can’t put these things into boxes. God is outside of the box. For me, it was when I was very ill, and certain that I was a dismal failure ( as far as being a testimony) that non-Christians saw and expressed the power of God through me and my faith.

For several years, for reasons that I gradually became aware of, illness WAS the BEST for me. God was building my faith in him. Then there came a time when God decided that health was the best for me. He healed me, miraculously.

I still believe that nobody has been nearly as moved BECAUSE of my healing, as they were through my weakness. And even now, it is not my strengths that touch people, but my own neediness, knowing that I walk the same vulnerable path that they do.
Even Paul recognized the value of weakness in himself.

We must always see others through God’s eyes, not through the eyes of our ideal expectations - of where we believe that others AUGHT to be at ex: ideal health, ideal faith or whatever. In fact, such lofty expectations put a terrible strain on the afflicted ones – even if they are not expressed out loud. I can remember being in the presence of those who thought or said that if I did something different, was less self-absorbed, had more faith, blah blah blah, then I should be healed. I was sensitive to their hidden thoughts, and trust me, their unspoken thoughts just made me feel sicker and more condemned. I was hard enough on myself, without being subjected to such burdens by well-meaning friends.

Mind you, through it all I learned that the only opinion that counted was God's. I needed to learn that he loved me dearly, just the way I was, and was indeed working in my life.

None of us lives out the ideal faith ourselves. So why should we be judging others by a standard that we cannot maintain!!

Something else to think about:
Don’t you wonder why Paul, who wrote such glorious words about standing strong in Christ, having victory in him, being free from the lion's mouth, etc was not freed from his chains - and even died in them?
Was Peter’s miraculous account – when the prison doors opening for him, a more glorious testimony?

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2007/2/23 15:51Profile
strawrifle
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 139
uk

 Re:

Amen Diane an excellent post, and maybe the one to end this thread on!

aj


_________________
andy

 2007/2/23 17:49Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Having been through illness, and experiencing it in my family, I can honestly say that we just can’t put these things into boxes. God is outside of the box. For me, it was when I was very ill, and certain that I was a dismal failure ( as far as being a testimony) that non-Christians saw and expressed the power of God through me and my faith.

For several years, for reasons that I gradually became aware of, illness WAS the BEST for me. God was building my faith in him. Then there came a time when God decided that health was the best for me. He healed me, miraculously.

I still believe that nobody has been nearly as moved BECAUSE of my healing, as they were through my weakness. And even now, it is not my strengths that touch people, but my own neediness, knowing that I walk the same vulnerable path that they do.
Even Paul recognized the value of weakness in himself.

We must always see others through God’s eyes, not through the eyes of our ideal expectations - of where we believe that others AUGHT to be at ex: ideal health, ideal faith or whatever. In fact, such lofty expectations put a terrible strain on the afflicted ones – even if they are not expressed out loud. I can remember being in the presence of those who thought or said that if I did something different, was less self-absorbed, had more faith, blah blah blah, then I should be healed. I was sensitive to their hidden thoughts, and trust me, their unspoken thoughts just made me feel sicker and more condemned. I was hard enough on myself, without being subjected to such burdens by well-meaning friends.

Mind you, through it all I learned that the only opinion that counted was God's. I needed to learn that he loved me dearly, just the way I was, and was indeed working in my life.

None of us lives out the ideal faith ourselves. So why should we be judging others by a standard that we cannot maintain!!

Something else to think about:
Don’t you wonder why Paul, who wrote such glorious words about standing strong in Christ, having victory in him, being free from the lion's mouth, etc was not freed from his chains - and even died in them?
Was Peter’s miraculous account – when the prison doors opening for him, a more glorious testimony?

Diane



Thanks for that gracious and wise response! You are right, we shouldn't even try to put God in a box.

Have you read a book called "God Can do it Without Me" by Johannes Facius? The writer, a Christian leader, went through a terrible three years of clinical depression.

He went to many "faith healers" who prayed for him but nothing happened. He said that because of the illness he actually lost his faith.

One of these who prayed for him accused him of lack of faith when nothing happened. Although deeply depressed he shot back, "I know [i]I[/i] don't have any faith. I came to you because I thought [i]you[/i] had faith!"

He was healed in the end, in seconds early one morning. The night before he had finally, in despair, "given up and let go" of all his Christian ministry responsibilities. Perhaps that was the main reason the Lord allowed him to suffer - not to punish him but to bring him to that point where it was truly "not by might, not by power," but by the Spirit of God.

But I wouldn't like to be in the shoes of the "healer" who so cruelly condemned him :-(


Jeannette

 2007/2/23 17:56









 Re:

Quote:

BenWilliams wrote:
Quote:


I don't guess anything that I say really matters, I will still be called bitter by someone. May I state again, as I did once before, that I have no bitterness, or resentment, or dislike for anyone on this site. I grow tired from making a defence for myself. I am convinced that ya'll will believe what you want about me. And continue to accuse me of bitterness. But my heart is clean of that.

[b]I will always show grace to the humble, but law to the proud. We are not dicussing Jesus Christ and Him crucified, if we were, I would stay on that topic. Is this not a discussion forum? Why is everyone so afraid to discuss something as though they believe it?[/b]

*****THIS IS WHERE YOUR ERROR******
I don't know if anyone has noticed, but when a person has posted, and has done so out of sincerity, and humility, I respond in the same way. When they rise up and rant, I remain humble, but unflinching. I don't non-controversialize a discussion so that everyone feels good about themselves.




Ben, this all started when...

tinluke posted ...

Times Square Church
Yesterday was so amazing at Church!! I was so encouraged by the message and the presence of God was so strong...it was almost tangible! Durning the worship service, I was so blessed just watching the women who was signing for the deaf ministry. I just watched her sign the words for each song and mouth the words... she look like an angel! I could have watched her and been completely blessed, but the message and the music...I can't even describe how glorious it was! Then to top it all off I got to meet Pastor Carter Conlon!! He is just clothed in kindness and he manifests the Love of Christ.

I would encourage anyone to visit Times Square Church! The 4 hour trip seems to get shorter and shorter each time I go!! I am so thankful that the Lord has allowed such a testimony of HIMSELF in this dark hour!!


_________________

******THEN YOU CAME BACK WITH THIS COMMENT*****
2007/2/20 7:32
BenWilliams
Just can't stay away

Re:
I wish the church of Christ would heal the deaf people instead of signing for them.

____________________

WHERE IS THE 'sincerity and humility'...??

I HAVE ONLY SEEN WHAT YOU SAY OTHERS DO...' rise up and rant'.

____________________

Ben, on numerous occasions I have seen you change your stance, all be it ever so slighty, but in a way not to get cornered. You change a word or fix an 'error' or 'mistake'.

For a split second, have you ever thought that maybe you should listen to some of these people who have been graciously patient with you?

I still love you, Ben. I commend your talent for dialogue and obviously your ability to attract an audience, but at one point you will have to realize that with age does come wisdom.

God Bless You here and everywhere you go,
Brian

P.S. The horse is dead.



:-(

 2007/2/23 19:05
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Great words, Jeannette!

Quote:
One of these who prayed for him accused him of lack of faith when nothing happened. Although deeply depressed he shot back, "I know I don't have any faith. I came to you because I thought you had faith!"


Good for that man!

Wow!! Jeanette, These words ring so beautifully! That reminds me of a time many years ago when I was in a desperate search for a psychiatrist for one of my children who was collapsing emotionally under the strain of illness (diabetes, etc) and a sick mom. I phoned a well- respected semi-retired Christian child psychiatrist who lived 12 hours drive away. He seemed so perfect for our situation. And I really wanted a Christian. He said, “Get a doctor nearer, right away! (this was serious) YOU are the one with the faith, and YOUR faith is what’s important in this situation.

Indeed, there are times when those who too ill and emotionally weak simply CANNOT take on faith. And that is when we “bear one another’s burdens”, and we exercise faith on their behalf.

And, isn’t that just where prayer often takes us. God calls us to be involved in the very ones whom we pray for – to help lighten the load that they are collapsing under.
And when they are stronger, and can walk on their own then we can back off - and, in fact need to, in order for them to take their first wobbly steps on their own!

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2007/2/23 19:07Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re: ask, hear, receive and do

James 1:1-8
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
[2] My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; [3] Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. [4] But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. [5] If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. [6] But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. [7] For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. [8] A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.


James 1:19-25
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: [20] For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. [21] Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. [23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: [24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. [25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.


I know, this is only His Word!

 2007/2/23 20:56Profile









 Re:

Quote:

pastorfrin wrote:
[23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: [24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. [25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

I know, this is only His Word!



Hi Bro Frin

Thanks for those scriptures. Can I share a story? Its from the "jungle Doctor Fables" by Paul White who was a missionery in Tanzania:

There was a hippopotamus who very much wanted to know what he looked like. He thought was a very handsome fellow, not at all like ugly Cousin Boko, or his dreadful aunt, but he really wanted to know for sure. He couldn't look at his reflection properly in the water because his big feet stirred it up and made it impossible to see himself.

His friend the monkey had an idea, "Come with me!" he said.

The monkey led him to a broken down old hut where people had once lived. "Go in there", the monkey said.

The hippo cautiously pushed his way in, and suddenly started back - there was another hippo there!

What an ugly beast the other hippo was! Even uglier than some of his relatives. He tried to say hello but although the other hippo opened its mouth it didn't make a sound. He moved, the other hippo moved. He looked at its legs and feet, they looked very much like his!

Slowly he began to realise the awful truth, but he didn't want to face it. He lifted his huge foot and smashed the mirror. The other hippo was gone" Good!

Hippo edged his way out of the house and decided he didn't want to know what he looked like any more.

"I don't like mirrors!" he thought.

 2007/2/23 22:01
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Quote:
"I don't like mirrors!" he thought.


Maybe thats the problem, the wisdom we should be asking for is, Lord show me what I really look like so I will desire only to reflect you.
James 1:5
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.


Yours through Him,

pastorfrin

 2007/2/23 22:17Profile
Dan777
Member



Joined: 2007/2/7
Posts: 21


 Re: Healing

I think the bottom line to the whole healing issue is we need to be led by the Spirit of God. There may be someone people that the Holy Spirit may tell you NOT to pray for. It may not be a matter of little faith, but just maybe the afflicted person is harboring unforgiveness, or they need to make some restitution for something they've done.

I do believe that healing is for all, but just because someone is seeking healing does not mean he is 'qualified' (in a clear conscience) to receive it. A person can hid things from man, but not from God.

Just be led by the Spirit when ministering to people.

Dan



 2007/2/24 13:30Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: when prompted not to pray

Quote:
There may be someone people that the Holy Spirit may tell you NOT to pray for. It may not be a matter of little faith, but just maybe the afflicted person is harboring unforgiveness, or they need to make some restitution for something they've done.


Dan, Indeed, bitterness is a very damaging condition of the mind, and often an underlying cause of lingering health issues.

Yet, Dan, I wonder, are you saying, that unforgiveness is not something that requires prayer? After al, most of the time unforgiveness (bitterness) is totally unconscious, and thus requires someone ELSE to pray into it.

Mind you, having said that, I would sure hate to attribute the lack of Spirit promptings to pray for one’s healing as an indication of unworthiness, or unwillness on the part of the afflicted.

Why - for several years, I KNEW without a doubt that I was not to pray for my own healing - not because I was resistant to God, but the contrary! I was WILLING to let him work in me in which ever way he wished.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2007/2/24 14:37Profile





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