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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Healing

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strawrifle
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 139
uk

 Re:

Does this include people born with down syndrome etc..Are they sick? Or are they perfect as they are and a joy to God?.

To just make a blanket statement about healing, without any consideration to how God may see them is naive at the least,and a kind of spiritual gene selection at worse


_________________
andy

 2007/2/22 18:10Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Goldminer wrote:
I believe that healing is for the believers for this reason:

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Saved means in the Strongs=

sozo {sode'-zo}

1) to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction

a) one (from injury or peril)


1) to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health

1) to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue

b) to save in the technical biblical sense

1) negatively

a) to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment

b) to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance

AV - save 93, make whole 9, heal 3, be whole 2, misc 3; 110


krispy asked why people don't live to be 2000, this is the reason why:

Psa 90:10 The days of our years [are] threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength [they be] fourscore years, yet [is] their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Exd 20:12 ¶ Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

1Pe 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:



It was God who declared the length of man's days and certain factors in our lives can effect our length of life, like not honoring our mother or father. And by the way it doesn't say if the deserve honor. Also if we drink the cup in an unworthy manner:

-------------------------------------------

1Cr 11:27 ¶ Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.


1Cr 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.


1Cr 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.


1Cr 11:30 For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.


1Cr 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.


1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

-------------------------------------------------

The R.C. Ryle said that we should embrace sickness so if it is a blessing why not ask for cancer or some like it?

Now before you start screaming at me I have never followed the WOF folks, in fact I have steared clear of them. Name it and claim it really bothers me because it has no accountability. You can live any nasty way you want and still claim the promises. I am bothered by that. However I again would suggest you read "The Real Faith for Healing" by Charles Price. This is very old book so don't associate it with the man's picture that comes up on this site. The one who wrote this book was an old man.

His teaching was that we seek the healer, not the healing. This sets right with me because the woman with the issue of blood said it she could but touch the hem of His garment she would be healed. According to your faith be it unto you.

Now I know again the quote will be Paul accepting his thorn in the flesh. I say if God comes to you and tells you He wants to leave you the way you are after fully seeking Him then receive it and His grace will be sufficient for you and me. I have read Joni Erickson's testimony myself and God told her He was leaving her unhealed for a reason, so she accepted it. However until God tells me different I will take Him at His word "sozo" and press in to touch the hem of His garment.

I think part of the hinderence to healing, please note I said part, is that we don't press into God we press into healing. When we live in the light of His presence He life erradicates our infirmities, unless He has told us differently. The trouble is we don't dwell in His presence. We make little side excursions when we have time, but our other "priorities" take the cental throne in our hearts. I guarantee that when Moses and Jesus came down the mountain from the presence of God no infirmities were present in their bodies. Yes God did allow some to keep certain things either to keep them humble or as a reminder. I will accept that if I ever get to the place they did. Until then I will press into to God. I will search for intimacy with Him and know that His light will dispel any darkness that is in my life, including sickness. I have seen it happen time and again.

I take exception to the notion that people get sick because they lacked faith. The enemy of our souls puts sickness on us like he did Job, however God healed Job. I can tell you of times in my business when one of my employees comes up to me and says I have strep I need to be off work and immediately my throat begins to hurt. I say devil you are a liar. That sickness can't come on me that fast. I say Jesus made provision for me by His stripes and I stand on Your word Lord. And just as fast as the symptom came it leaves. I have walked in God's word for healing for over thirty years and it is true. Have I never stuggled, yes, but that doesn't change the word of God. When I touch Him I receive His healing.

If we would spend as much time on our faces worshipping Him and basking in His presence as we do on these computers we would experience that glory and would walk in more of the provision than we do. I am certain of it.

Last but not least, last night I went to hear missionary Heidi Baker speak. It was wonderful to hear someone speak who attibutes everything to intimacy with God. Their ministry is seeing healing, deaf, blind, dead raised, etc. Mark 16 stuff. Why?, because Heidi learned the secret that she could accomplish more in one minute after being in His presence "intimacy" than she could have in thirty years of working without it.

My pastor said " These signs will follow those who believe they will follow".

I can attest they do. At work I lay hands on the sick and "many" recover. Do all? I don't know, I do know that a number come back and tell me they were well, even of cancer.

I will do and believe the word. If God tells me for whateve reason He wants to leave me or someone sick and I'm sure it's Him then OK, but until then I am sozo'd




I just wanted people to read what Goldminer posted...again.

Ben, you have been taking some heat and I respect your ambition for trying to balance it all. However, trying to balance too many things at once, always leads to disaster. Like I said before, you are intelligent and I hope that you keep the love you have for Him. I also mentioned your attitude, not your pride.

I cannot help but think of Jesus when he went into the temple and turned over tables and healed the sick and the lame. Ben, it seems you are trying to be Jesus in this situation (thread), but you are failing to realize that Jesus is with us and we are all trying to listen to Him (but there seems to be a lot of noise coming in through the door). **You are welcome inside, but be careful not to knock over Jesus' table**

Other than that...

I believe and I will suffer. I believe and I will be healed. I believe and I will trust Him whose ways and times are much different and higher than my own.

If all 'true' believing Christians were to be perfectly healed of suffering, including disease, this would be Heaven. I have news for some of you...this is not Heaven!

This thread has gone on long enough for me. God does heal. We will not understand this, no matter how much we 'talk' about it. We are to praise him, rejoicing that He is Him, who created everything.

In Heaven, we will all see, hear, walk, dance, and sing. We will be able to do everything, in God's will, in God's time. In the meantime, love one another. To the best of our ability, love.

My singing is not too good now, but I bet'cha it will be much sweeter in Heaven!

God Bless those that are healed by the stripes of Jesus (either now or later in eternity),
BrianMira

 2007/2/22 21:06
Provost
Member



Joined: 2006/12/28
Posts: 117


 Re: strawrifle

A blanket statement here would actually be allowed while speaking of God's will on healing according to soley His Word. You brought up a sujective instance again and we as Christians cannot be moved by subjective instances. WE can only be moved by Gods Word. If I were to be healed of diabetes tomorrow that would not make Jesus the divine Healer just as if I were never healed and died from diabetes that would not make Jesus any less of a healer. Jesus is the Divine Healer b/c the Bible revealed Him as so. The blanket can now be laid over the question if it is God's will to heal. Again "heaven is the unhindered manifestation of God's Will"--Andrew Murray

 2007/2/22 21:49Profile
strawrifle
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 139
uk

 Re:

I decided to delete what i wrote on this post..As a friend of a extremely disabled friend/boss,maybe i am to close to the situation,but i just feel entirely different to Ben's and others stances..

But im really trying my hardest not get into situations where I'm arguing with the body,so I'm stepping out of this thread..

cheers GB all
andy


_________________
andy

 2007/2/22 23:42Profile









 Re:

To quote a line from the movie "Facing The Giants"...

"If we win... we praise Him. If we lose... we praise Him."

If I ever come down with cancer... I will praise Him for His glorious grace and mercy... and especially for His salvation. I will pray for healing, but whatever His answer be to that prayer... I will praise Him.

Krispy

 2007/2/23 7:11
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re: Ben Williams

Quote:
My heart bleeds for you, because that spirit leaks out onto this forum via your postings, and my brother I have been guilty of such on more than one occasion.

ease up, show Grace, "your opinion", nobody cares about "your opinion". The only thing that really matters is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified, everything else is white noise and religious palaber.




I don't guess anything that I say really matters, I will still be called bitter by someone. May I state again, as I did once before, that I have no bitterness, or resentment, or dislike for anyone on this site. I grow tired from making a defence for myself. I am convinced that ya'll will believe what you want about me. And continue to accuse me of bitterness. But my heart is clean of that.

[b]I will always show grace to the humble, but law to the proud. We are not dicussing Jesus Christ and Him crucified, if we were, I would stay on that topic. Is this not a discussion forum? Why is everyone so afraid to discuss something as though they believe it?[/b]

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but when a person has posted, and has done so out of sincerity, and humility, I respond in the same way. When they rise up and rant, I remain humble, but unflinching. I don't non-controversialize a discussion so that everyone feels good about themselves.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/2/23 10:16Profile
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
You said " But if they were to be healed, they could do far more for God than they could in an injured or diseased state."

How do u know?



[b]Because then they have a testimony of the awesome power of our savior, and more glory goes to Him because of it.[/b]

Let's suppose for one second that a man is in a wheelchair for ten years, he's a Christian, and witnesses to his doctors, and the nurses etc.. He is the picture of a man who is glorifying God in his weakness, and then he dies one day, and goes to heaven.

Now let's suppose that we have the exact same situation, only instead of him dying one day, the Lord heals him. Now his doctors are forced to admit that there is a God who has power, everyone who he ever knew must now reckognize the power of God, and the witness that he now has shown is a far greater testament of God, than the other.

Quote:
This as nothing to do with faith, it as everything to do with ur prejudices against disabled people..Your incapable of seeing them as whole,even when i have posted my friend and others feel completely whole as they are..



I am going to give you some scripture on this one, so that you can see that my "opinion" as everyone keeps calling it, is scriptural, and not just an opinion.

[b]Matthew 9:20-22

20And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:

21For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, [u]I shall be whole.[/u]

22But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; [u]thy faith hath made thee whole.[/u] And the woman was made whole from that hour.
--------------------------------------------------

Matthew 12:13

13Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was [u]restored whole,[/u] like as the other.
--------------------------------------------------

Matthew 14:35-36

35And when the men of that place had knowledge of him, they sent out into all that country round about, and brought unto him all that were diseased;

36And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched [u]were made perfectly whole.[/u]
--------------------------------------------------

Matthew 15:28

28Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter [u]was made whole[/u] from that very hour.
--------------------------------------------------

Matthew 15:31

31Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, [u]the maimed to be whole,[/u] the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.
--------------------------------------------------

Mark 2:17

17When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, [u]They that are whole[/u] have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. --------------------------------------------------[/b]

In that last verse, it makes it obvious that Jesus thought that sick people were not whole unless they were healed.

I have no prejudice against people who are sick, or lame, or injured, I want them all to be healed, physically, mentally, and spiritually.

Quote:
Have you ever considered these people don't want to be healed,that they consider they have nothing to be healed of,and definatly not to live up to your ideal of normal..Just because someone appears different to you,doesnt mean their body is not perfect to God as they are..



Yes, I have, and I feel sorry for them that they don't want what God has for them. That is not God's view of them, God sees their righteousness as perfect, not their bodies. That is a humanistic philosophy. This opinion is completely contrary to scripture, and has been formed, because of someone's unbelief somewhere along the line.

But I will say this, if they don't want what God can give them, that's between them and God. I just hope that they understand that they are refusing the gift of God, and His son Jesus Christ, our healer.

Quote:
I'm not from America, but i'd say ur very American with its obsession with body perfection..



Nope, I don't have any obsession with perfect bodies, I just have an obsession with perfect faith.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/2/23 10:48Profile
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

I would like to ask everyone a question here, does anyone know what the process is for when iron sharpens iron?


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/2/23 10:50Profile
strawrifle
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 139
uk

 Re:

Ben you said [b]"Because then they have a testimony of the awesome power of our savior, and more glory goes to Him because of it."[/b]

And a person who is content even with the most extreme disabilities with Gods grace isn't a awesome testimony?

You also said [b]"Yes, I have, and I feel sorry for them that they don't want what God has for them"[/b]

How ironic my friends have read this post and said they felt sorry for you..They wondered who needed the healing them or you!

edited ...Ok Ben u can reply but im not going to read it..You say ur all about God, but to me ur just causing frictions..God only knows how ur making disabled people feel who read this thread

aj


_________________
andy

 2007/2/23 13:25Profile
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
And a person who is content even with the most extreme disabilities with Gods grace isn't a awesome testimony?



I didn't say it wasn't an awesome testimony, what I said was that it is not as awesome a testimony, as someone who is healed.

Quote:
How ironic my friends have read this post and said they felt sorry for you..They wondered who needed the healing them or you!



That's interesting.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/2/23 14:04Profile





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