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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Healing

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iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Healing is one of the ways that Jesus shows his glory on earth, but not the only way. He performed signs and miracles in Tyre and Sidon, but they were unbelieving. Jesus can heal someone who is in unbelief -just like the man lowered through the roof was healed by the faith of his friends.

Jesus, as I have already mentioned, the verse in Luke 5 which you have avoided, is said to have been filled with healing power at certain times, which also implies that he was not filled with healing power at other times, or chose not always to heal.

A lot of times healing is a first step for someone into the faith, like the woman with issue of bleeding -not an issue of faith in an ongoing relationship with Jesus. CS Lewis had to deal with 'the problem of pain' and I doubt very many would dispute his anointing.

Paul was sick, there were people sick in the early church (verses have already been provided to state this fact) timothy could have been blown over by a gust of wind.

[b]Ben, I really enjoy how you take Timothy's ephod, but not Timothy's cross[/b]! Timothy had an anointed ministry, but he was also weak in the flesh. He had a physical burden to bear in order to advance the work of the Gospel. Couldn't God have healed him and given him a strong body? Definitely! Do you think that Timothy lacked faith... well I'd like to see you argue that one.

You want all the blessings of Jesus, but none of the scourging! You want all the peace and joy, but none of the sufferings. Can you say with Peter, Paul, and the martyrs of the early church that you rejoice in suffering for the sake of the Gospel?

Quote:
1 Peter 4:12-13
Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.

1 Peter 4:16
However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.



Christians are going to suffer, physical affliction, persecution, martyrdom. How many saints have died of diseases in the mission field? How many have been scourged for the sake of the Gospel? But for those saints, Jesus will [b]stand at the right hand[/b] of the thrown to receive them -and I also believe because he suffers with them, He wants to stop what is happening! But it is not according to his father's plan. The Father lets affliction happen in order to glorify his name -even in disease.

Jesus suffered affliction at Gethsemane, he bore the whole sin of the world on his shoulders, and sweated drops of blood... that's not a normal occurrence. There is a medical explanation, people can actually sweat blood, but it is an extremely rare medical condition, a sickness! Does that mean Jesus was sick? I know what your answer is going to be Ben, so I really don't know if this is even worth bringing up.

Quote:
Matthew 13:14-15
… " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'



This is a spiritual healing and I pray you recieve it. [b]Jesus' main concern was healing people's calloused hearts[/b], not just their bodies... he healed people's bodies to give them bring them to the faith, he heals their hearts because of faith.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/2/22 13:05Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Dear Ben, we interpret the scriptures different,

you quote James "Show me your faith by your works."

this is true, but this is not only healing...many false prophets heal people too, so healing isn't "the" work that shows our faith...many people who did great miracles are not going to be in heaven...matt 7:22

that verse includes more than healing,


you wrote

so as to prove that your unbelief is justified



my faith is gift from God, if its not good enough for him why did he give in the first place? did anyone in the entire world get a "great" faith of himself? did John G. Lake have a method he used to get "big" faith? or did God give him his faith? i believe God gave him his faith,


and according to scripture how many different kinds of faith is there?


because you wrote

First of all, saving faith and healing faith are two totally separate kinds of faith,



i thought there only was one faith, and that in the risen son of God, Jesus Christ, can we have two faiths in him?



_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/2/22 13:15Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Heretical doctrine is to believe that our Father in heaven who gives good gifts, gets glory from making us sick, or diseased.



No, my friend... this is the result of the curse. This is where you err. Man brought sin and suffering on himself. God does not "get the glory" for that. Thats the same line of reasoning that says "a loving God would never send anyone to hell".

Also, show me in scripture where if someone isnt healed it is always God's "second best". You have never answered the Joni question... because you cant.

Krispy

 2007/2/22 13:19
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

edit


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/2/22 13:22Profile
Goldminer
Member



Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re: John G. Lake

By the way John G. Lake layed hands on about a thousand people before one got healed, but it didn't undaunt him about the fact healing was a part of the word. As he persevered he saw huge numbers healed, were all, no. However there are many factors as to why we don't receive healing, some of which I listed in my last post on this thread.

I feel it is a mistake to think that because some, including me, believe that healing is for God's children that those who don't recieve it are some how second class or faithless. I think the desire of my heart, and probably most, is for God's people to walk in health. If God has made such a awesome provision available to us why not partake of it?





_________________
KLC

 2007/2/22 13:39Profile
Provost
Member



Joined: 2006/12/28
Posts: 117


 Re:

Krispy I am saying it again cause the shoe fits (not you personally but just look at the consistancy of this thread)
Some need to press into Jesus and allow the Holy Spirit to reveal that Jesus is The Divine Healer. If you try to refute that Jesus is the Divine Healer you are going against Scripture...this is not a faith issue, but a Jesus as our Healer issue. Let's work on not mocking those who have a revelation of our Divine Healer.

 2007/2/22 13:49Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

edit


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/2/22 13:49Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Brothers,

The gift of healing, of laying of hands is a dangerous thing! We need to have a pure and holy heart and proper motives to desire such a gift.

It is clear that there has been much bitterness on behalf of BenWilliams -very few would dispute that his words have been sharp and full of poison.

I have one verse that should be read in context, but please consider it:

Acts 8:23
[KJV]For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
[NIV] For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.
[NASB] "For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity."

Now please read it in context of Acts 8:9-25.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/2/22 13:53Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

edit


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/2/22 14:03Profile
Provost
Member



Joined: 2006/12/28
Posts: 117


 Re: hmmhmm

Try without the mockery...Others can refute without the childish mockery.
Also please use theology to back up your agruments and not your subjective life examples

 2007/2/22 14:10Profile





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