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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Healing

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 Re:

Quote:

dorcas wrote:
Hi Ben,

Quote:
So if I tell someone that Jesus said He would heal them, and then they don't get healed, I feel like to them it makes Christ a liar, and me a liar.

Any help on that one?

I suppose my first question to you is to ascertain you are implying [i][b]you have waited on the Lord for His word; He has given you His word that the person will be healed[/b][/i], but, by the time you have finished praying, there are no visible signs of it?

Is this the scenario you are describing?


This is the answer.

Corrie ten Boom was apparently approcahed by a woman who had been involved in witchcraft. She immediately took authority in the Name of Jesus, over the spirit in the woman and she waas set free.

A Christian leader who was with Corrie said in amazement, "How do you do that?"

Corrie retorted, "I do it whichever way the Lord tells me to do it!"

Love in Him

Jeannette

 2007/2/26 14:32









 Re: Healing

LittleGift said

Quote:
This is the answer.

As long as the obedience is to God, yes.


I'm still interested to hear Ben's response.

 2007/2/26 14:39
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I suppose my first question to you is to ascertain you are implying you have waited on the Lord for His word; He has given you His word that the person will be healed, but, by the time you have finished praying, there are no visible signs of it?

Is this the scenario you are describing?




Not really.

I believe it is God's will to heal everyone.

I do not believe it is God's will for me personally to pray for every sick or disabled or demon possessed person in the whole world.

So here is the situation, I feel the Holy Spirit's leading to go and pray for a persons healing, I tell them that the Lord can and wants to heal them, and then I usually tell them some stories of the power of God that I have seen to build their faith, and then I pray for them.

Sometimes they are healed, sometimes they aren't.

I will always address the issue of unforgiveness, or unrepented of sin if they are not immediately healed.

I know that some healings are instant, and some are gradual, I haven't seen many gradual healings, mostly instant or not at all.

So that is the scenario more or less.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/2/26 15:02Profile
Dan777
Member



Joined: 2007/2/7
Posts: 21


 Re:

Ben:

There is a difference between a healing and a miracle. A healing takes time, a miracle is instantaneous. Just because someone was not healed in a moment of time does not mean that the Lord didn't heal the person. It just hasn't manifested yet.

Read Acts 14:8-10, Paul perceived that the impotent man, while hearing Paul preach, had faith to be healed, so then Paul spoke to man and called out to him to stand up.

Smith Wigglesworth had a tremendous healing ministry. But on some of the cases, he had to pray first and get a direct unction, and direction from the Spirit of God before he ministered to the afflicted one.

Every case is different. We have to be sensitive to the afflicted one and the Spirit of God at the same time.

Blessings,

Dan







 2007/2/26 15:09Profile









 Re: Ben

Brother Ben

I haven't "ranted" at you, yet you seem hurt and offended with almost all who disagree with you, however gracious we try to be.

I probably was rather patronising at one stage, for which I apologise.

You were offended because someone "accused" you of bitterness. Actually bitterness is not anything to "accuse" anyone of.

Naomi called herself "Marah", "Bitterness" (Ruth 1:20 following). She was full of sorrow and loss and suffering. That is bitterness, this reaction to suffering. And you are obviously suffering greatly.

Ben, you remind me of a wounded wild animal, biting and scratching - even at those who might be able to help you.

I have lost any desire to reason or argue with you, and feel nothing but concern for your pain. It is far more important that you are healed, than who is right in the debate [i]about[/i] healing.

I wondered whether to send this as a private message but think it would probably be better in the open forum.

We love you, Ben.


Yours Him

Jeannette

 2007/2/26 15:10









 Re:

Quote:

Dan777 wrote:
Ben:

There is a difference between a healing and a miracle. A healing takes time, a miracle is instantaneous. Just because someone was not healed in a moment of time does not mean that the Lord didn't heal the person. It just hasn't manifested yet.

Read Acts 14:8-10, Paul perceived that the impotent man, while hearing Paul preach, had faith to be healed, so then Paul spoke to man and called out to him to stand up.

Smith Wigglesworth had a tremendous healing ministry. But on some of the cases, he had to pray first and get a direct unction, and direction from the Spirit of God before he ministered to the afflicted one.

Every case is different. We have to be sensitive to the afflicted one and the Spirit of God at the same time.

Blessings,

Dan


Some good points, Dan - something to chew on. Especially [i][b]"Every case is different. We have to be sensitive to the afflicted one and the Spirit of God at the same time."[/b][/i]

Thanks

Jeannette

 2007/2/26 15:14
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Hey LittleGift,

I'm always open to PM's or for the open forum.

Part of the debating forum that is difficult for me is that you'll get two or three guys who are just attacking you, and then there is another guy mixed in there who is trying to help, but he sounds just like the rest. I am honestly trying to discern the difference between them, but I was having a rough time because I was getting about 15 responses for every 1 that I was posting, I was having to answer them so fast that I did not get a chance to really spend time discerning the heart of each one.

I will try to take more time to understand the heart of each response so that I do not miss any intended help.

Quote:
You were offended because someone "accused" you of bitterness. Actually bitterness is not anything to "accuse" anyone of.

Naomi called herself "Marah", "Bitterness" (Ruth 1:20 following). She was full of sorrow and loss and suffering. That is bitterness, this reaction to suffering. And you are obviously suffering greatly.



In this regard, I don't understand why they posted it then. I thought they were accusing me of the bitterness that comes from unforgiveness being harbored in ones heart. I grew up that way, very bitter towards my parents, my family, and then God became the object of my bitterness, I had so much anger towards all of these people. The Lord really did a marvelous thing in me, I don't get upset at that much any more, and God has given me nothing but love for all those people I hated.

Quote:
I have lost any desire to reason or argue with you, and feel nothing but concern for your pain. It is far more important that you are healed, than who is right in the debate about healing.



Thanks.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/2/26 15:23Profile









 Re: Healing


Ben,

Thanks for your answer to me.

I am interested that you think it is God's will to heal everyone.

I've just read part of your discussion with Jay about salvation.

Jesus said 'whosoever will may come and drink of the waters of life freely' but many are put off on the journey, or, should I say [i]by[/i] the journey.

This is not my full reply, but it is something for you to think about, especially with regard to those who have been chronically ill. The illness becomes part of their identity. They may have trouble parting with aspects of that identity - parting with their neediness. In these cases, there has to be a willingness to repent of not being willing to be changed, to repent of wanting to keep the pain.

This may be unthinkable to you, but to them, it makes a lot more sense than being healed.

One of the reasons I'm [i]keen[/i] on healing, is that it gives a person an encounter with Jesus, maybe our Father, and with the power of prayer and also, faith. Even if only this once, they come to Jesus in need, and go away changed. While many may never return to even thank Him, for some, it is an opening to another way of living. But, to make the transition from sick worldling to whole saint, may be a matter of several steps for them - maybe even to take years not seconds.

While sickness may well be associated with sin, it may also be associated with sins [i]against[/i] the person. All you can do is pray as God leads you, and trust Him to help that person through the need of their moment. Some healing is so psychologically deep in its meaning, that it takes literal time - days, maybe weeks - for a person to take stock of all God has done for them.

Be patient with people, and trust God to use you how He pleases. I'm sure you don't have this urgency simply from your own self. But as you walk with God through each opportunity to pray for someone, He will be teaching you more and more how to be most useful to Him, so that each person's faith is built up, and you yourself are not dismayed or confounded by His answers.

Maybe I've said more here than I intended. I will be online again tomorrow, and will work out then, if there's more I want to say, when I've seen your further response (if any).

 2007/2/26 15:33









 Re:

Quote:

BenWilliams wrote:
Hey LittleGift,

I'm always open to PM's or for the open forum.

Part of the debating forum that is difficult for me is that you'll get two or three guys who are just attacking you, and then there is another guy mixed in there who is trying to help, but he sounds just like the rest. I am honestly trying to discern the difference between them, but I was having a rough time because I was getting about 15 responses for every 1 that I was posting, I was having to answer them so fast that I did not get a chance to really spend time discerning the heart of each one.

I will try to take more time to understand the heart of each response so that I do not miss any intended help.

Quote:
You were offended because someone "accused" you of bitterness. Actually bitterness is not anything to "accuse" anyone of.

Naomi called herself "Marah", "Bitterness" (Ruth 1:20 following). She was full of sorrow and loss and suffering. That is bitterness, this reaction to suffering. And you are obviously suffering greatly.



In this regard, I don't understand why they posted it then. I thought they were accusing me of the bitterness that comes from unforgiveness being harbored in ones heart. I grew up that way, very bitter towards my parents, my family, and then God became the object of my bitterness, I had so much anger towards all of these people. The Lord really did a marvelous thing in me, I don't get upset at that much any more, and God has given me nothing but love for all those people I hated.

Quote:
I have lost any desire to reason or argue with you, and feel nothing but concern for your pain. It is far more important that you are healed, than who is right in the debate about healing.



Thanks.


And thank you. I admit that I was rather fearful of what response this message might receive. Also re my own motives - was I again being patronising?

The original use of the word "bitterness" may have been an accusation, but only, I think, because you came over as so aggressive in your responses to those you disagreed with. (Which was probably why you "got two or three guys attacking you" - they probably felt [i]you[/i] were attacking them!)

It took a while for me to realise that you weren't just being ornery for the sake of it, but because of "attack being the best means of defense".

We probably all have certain doctrines and opinions that raise our hackles if challenged. Healing happens to be yours perhaps. One of mine is Evolution, yet the business of "I suffer not a woman to teach..." (I was a Presbyterian minister) doesn't make me bat an eyelid, because it was settled before the Lord long ago and I no longer feel threatened by the issue.

What blesses me is that you now humbly asked for help, because in your experience not everyone does seem to get healed.

That to me is a real breakthrough! Not because I disagree that everyone ought to get healed (though I do!) but because you at last relaxed enough to be able to make yourself and your beliefs "vulnerable". For someone could easily come back at you and say, "You see! That proves not everyone should be healed."

Actually that doesn't "prove" it exactly, as has already been suggested, but there you go

in Him

jeannette.

 2007/2/26 15:56
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
This is not my full reply, but it is something for you to think about, especially with regard to those who have been chronically ill. The illness becomes part of their identity. They may have trouble parting with aspects of that identity - parting with their neediness. In these cases, there has to be a willingness to repent of not being willing to be changed, to repent of wanting to keep the pain.



This is an interesting concept, one I have toyed with before in my mind. Just to think that someone would rather be sick or disabled, than to be healed is completely unthinkable to me as you said.

Even the slightest cold or anything, and I am already going to God for healing, making sure my conscience is clear before God. And praying for the healing till I get better. Much less if something serious ever happened to me.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/2/26 15:59Profile





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