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Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Compliments:

[b]Habakkuk 2:4[/b] [color=990000]Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: the just shall live by his faith.[/color]
The word "his" must refere to the person whose soul is lifted up and is not upright in him.

Would you say, "The person which is eating my lunch, The cops will get [b]him[/b] for steeling my food."
Would you be refering to the [b]him[/b] as a difrent person?
No.
The same for [b]Habakkuk 2:4[/b].
The "his" must refer to the subject.

Quote:
[b]Compliments wrote:[/b]
I am having difficulty receiving that it's not "Christs' faith" that Paul is now living by.



Who elses would it be if Jesus couldn't have faith?
If you think that Jesus does have faith, reread my post about it, then tell me how He could.

Quote:
[b]sb1175 wrote:[/b]
how can you love truth and not submit to it? i just don't feel there's any basis for somebody to be able to say i love truth without being able to submit to it.


I didn't say that one who loves the truth was'nt able to submit to it.

Truth is reality and the law is real.
Couldn't a judge with a dead heart submit the law that he loves?
Yes.
However, one will not submit consistantly.

 2007/4/16 22:37Profile









 Re:

i take it, i could be wrong, and love to see the hebrew for this verse,- as i said in my response, that verse from Hab 2 is, "

Quote:
refering to the sustenance of spiritual life by the works of "faith-ing"

". if not, it's a reference towards our Lord

i will come back after chewing on your answer about the judge because, my i still have to understand what you are getting at. for now, we really need to look at the greek TR for chapter 3 and 4....for the sake of this, somebody please shed some light on the 22-28 of chapter 3.... i was hoping Ron would drop by but he's nowhere to be seen

samuel

 2007/4/18 22:57
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

I have no idea what "faith-ing" is.

Quote:
i will come back after chewing on your answer about the judge because, my i still have to understand what you are getting at


You said,
Quote:
basis for somebody to be able to say i love truth without being able to submit to it

I am gaetting at that one is able to submit to the truth even though one has a dead heart in trespasses and sin.
One can have have faith in God because faith is acknowleging the truth and submitting to it.

That is how the law works.
One who has a dead heart in trespasses and sin hears the truth of God's Law and submits to it in conviction.
Quote:
somebody please shed some light on the 22-28 of chapter 3


I will on my next breake.
I have a good explaination.

 2007/4/19 9:10Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
sb1175 wrote:
somebody please shed some light on the 22-28 of chapter 3.... i was hoping Ron would drop by but he's nowhere to be seen


[b]Gal 3:22[/b] [color=990000]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.[/color]
The "sin in this verse is an abstract description of "disobedience" or "unbelief" according to what translation of Rom 11:32 one has.
Compare Gal 3:22 to Rom 11:32.
[b]Rom 11:32[/b] [color=990000]For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.[/color]
The "promise by faith in Jesus Christ" is "the mercy that comes to all"


[b]Gal 3:23[/b] [color=990000]But before the coming of faith, we were guarded under Law, having been locked up to the faith being about to be revealed.[/color]
[b]In other words:[/b] Before faith in Jesus Christ, they were guarded in a common subjection to Law for a purpose of directing them to that that faith.
Therefore the Law is a Guide to those under it.V.24

 2007/4/19 14:00Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
sb1175 on 2007/4/13 17:07:30
In your eyes is faith, i.e saving faith, a work or not? (to make it simpler, if faith is believing, is believing a work that humans do or not) just like for example, not stealing is a work, or holding oneself from coveting, or other sinful things...or even prayer is a work (please don't go hard on me, for this has been little by little explained to me, and i still haven't really fleshed all the implications out).... i believe it is, but the issue i have is, i would like to know how you reconcile "faith" if it is a work with your definition?


My apologies, I completely missed this thread and have been out of town for a while. In answer to your question above, and realising you may have lost all interest in the question by this time, I would like to pose another question. (is’nt it annoying when folks do that?) “Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
(John 6:28-29 KJVS) Would this be ‘a work’ in the way you see things. The questioners were clearly wanting to ‘do something for God’ and Christ’s answer is that the thing they should ‘do’ is to believe on Himself. This would suggest that is some sense ‘faith’ is a work but certainly not a work of the law.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/4/19 14:21Profile
philologos
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Posts: 6566
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 Re:

Quote:
CJaKfOrEsT on 2007/4/16 9:47:21
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


But what exactly is 'the gift of God' in this sentence?

It might seem that the obvious answer is 'faith' but the word 'it' in 'it is the...' is in the neuter which is not what I would have expected if it is referring to 'faith' which is a feminine noun. The word 'grace' is also a feminine noun so the word 'it' doesn't seem to be pointing to that either.

I think it may be referring to the whole 'salvation' process and not specifically to 'faith' itself.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/4/19 14:42Profile
philologos
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Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Based upon Romans 10:17, would not the correct definition be "Sin is the right response to the Word of God."?


The word for 'word' is rhEma which is an expressed or spoken word. It is a word in an active state rather than as a dormant fact.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/4/19 14:45Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
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 Re:

Quote:
sb1175 on 2007/4/16 20:24:38
again, if it is a command, how can a dead heart in trespasses and sin all of a sudden have faith in what God says He is and will do without the reveleation of the Word of God? i.e, (i would also ascribe as) the heart changed from dead to living, by the faith of Jesus Christ inside the man as "UniqueWebPr" stated. i am burning to see the greek exposition on chapters 3 and 4 of Romans.


How can a man with a withered arm 'stretch it out'? There is an important verse in Luke which may give us the answer. “For with God nothing shall be impossible. And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.”(Luke 1:37-38 KJVS) is the way most of us are familiar with it but the old ASV has “For no [u]word[/u] from God shall be void of power. And Mary said, Behold, the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy [u]word[/u]. And the angel departed from her.”
(Luke 1:37-38 ASV)...which is much more literal. The word for 'word' here again is rhEma and it makes Mary's reponse much more understandable.

The angel says 'no spoken word of God is without dunamis (inherent power)' and Mary responds 'be it unto me according to your spoken word'. The very fact of God 'speaking' changes everything. His initiative in speaking changes all the rules, even those who are in the graves can hear when God speaks. (John 5:28,29) We have at least three incidents in the gospel where the Lord spoke to dead people and they heard him.


Quote:
b1175 wrote:
somebody please shed some light on the 22-28 of chapter 3.... i was hoping Ron would drop by but he's nowhere to be seen


Is this Romans 3:22-28 we are talking about?


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Ron Bailey

 2007/4/19 14:58Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
The word for 'word' is rhEma which is an expressed or spoken word. It is a word in an active state rather than as a dormant fact.



I have always needed a definition of rhema. :-)


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/4/19 15:28Profile









 Re:

Philologos(Mr. Ron), thanks so much for spending some time with the questions. i have to think about what you said more. but for now, yes, it's Romans 3 and 4.
just a thought- i am more confused now because i am asking myself now, does God speak to every being or does he choose only to speak to those that he has elected to save? (and this is strictly regarding salvation in the acceptance of His Son) and these questions arose from your exposition of the word RhEma.

can you also comment on what "UniqueWebRev" asked you also (seeing that you are back at it :))
thanks to you from my heart brother....

by UniqueWebRev on 2007/4/16 1:01:34

My question would lean more to whether, since Jesus lives in me, does not His Faith, as in Godlike Faith, also live in me?

And if so, will not His Faith trump my poor faith as I lay gasping on the narrow path?

Also, from what I have been taught, if you turn the noun 'faith' into a verb 'faithe', it translates more clearly, but darned if I can figure out all the ways you would need to spell it to get the action sense of the word into 'faithe'.

Pulling on your sleeve, Philologos, and saying, please, please, can you explain this to me?, I give my thanks in advance for your attention to this small Greek matter, but great matter of 'faithing'.

Blessings,

Forrest

 2007/4/20 22:05





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