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Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

[b]Habakkuk 2:4[/b][color=990000]Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: the just shall live by his faith.[/color]
Please, keep words in context!
The "his" means "his own" faith.

 2007/4/16 14:04Profile









 Re:

is believing the same as having faith? if not what's the difference? and, if it's not, the action of believing though not having of a physical aspect, is a mental and almost soul-ish (i know there is no word:-D )commitment to surrender our minds to accept everything that God says He is or would do. and for this reason, i like what dohzman says just a few responses before this thread. i rescind my objection over the question of what Ron defines as faith because, mr. dohzman succintly answered it for me. I believe that God's word is revealed to us in our inward parts only after God gives us a new heart and brings us from death to life.(and i am pretty sure most of you i think agree with me on this and hopefully Ron too). and the faith that comes in inwardly from this revelation, is the faith of Christ Jesus that lives in us (though from outside of the soul,this totally would look like it's our own personal faith. or is it??

Quote:
by Logic on 2007/4/16 11:43:21 Quote: CJaKfOrEsT wrote: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that bnot of yourselves: it is the gift of God: The "it" is in refrence to the Grace, not Faith. Faith is not a gift, but a command,



again, if it is a command, how can a dead heart in trespasses and sin all of a sudden have faith in what God says He is and will do without the reveleation of the Word of God? i.e, (i would also ascribe as) the heart changed from dead to living, by the faith of Jesus Christ inside the man as "UniqueWebPr" stated. i am burning to see the greek exposition on chapters 3 and 4 of Romans.

especially chpt 3:22,26,27,28,31 ....
the difficult part is chpt 4 which completely seems to radically challenge the idea of saving faith being not the faith of Jesus Christ but our own faith(again, seems like, but who knows the greek might be something different)

I want to add this: i am no expert in this. i am just a babe with these type of things. i heard this on the radio now for about 1 week and God has really confirmed it in my heart. there is something that i felt was completely broken from my heart when God by His mercy revealed this to me. i realize that also what i hear of the direct contradiction this thought of "the faith of Jesus Christ is the one that saves" not "my faith" - brings to all the other christian language of salvation i have heard until now...so, i see this business of saving faith as great matter of importance. thanks for listening to this long thread....by the way, God bless you those that contributed- UniqueWebPr, PreacherParsley, JaySaved, Logic, beenblake, compliments, etc.

if there are armenians, i am sorry but my leanings now as i am realizing it is towards the calvinists.
but take heart, we are all the true sons and daughters of the Most High, the ministers who stand before Him to worship.

sam

 2007/4/16 15:24









 Re:

Quote:
Habakkuk 2:4Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: the just shall live by his faith. Please, keep words in context! The "his" means "his own" faith.



again, brother, if it's a command, don't you see a contradiction in that what man can obey a command of God without transfering by the faith of Christ Jesus from death to life? or is the verse refering to the sustenance of spiritual life by the works of "faith-ing" ?

 2007/4/16 15:29









 Re: Philologos


I've posted this from Chambers before on SI. It seems relevant, again.

His thesis reminds me of a sermon I once heard on 'The transport of God', in which the preacher drew us to Revelation where John is 'immediately' in the Spirit, and compared this instantaneous experience with a new plane which had recently been tested, which took only 2 hours to fly from the US east coast to London, UK. In fact, it couldn't stop fast enough, and was over Frankfurt before it had slowed down enough to turn back to land.

The transport of God is not so sloppy. It goes straight to the point, and that [i]immediately[/i]. In receiving this lift into His presence, we are brought to interface with eternity, [i]immediately[/i]. No nano-seconds pass, even, but we are brought into contact with I AM, with neither 'work' nor delay.



October 28th (My Utmost for His Highest) myutmost.org

JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH


"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." Romans 5:10

I am not saved by believing; I realize I am saved by believing. It is not repentance that saves me, repentance is the sign that I realize what God has done in Christ Jesus. The danger is to put the emphasis on the effect instead of on the cause. It is my obedience that puts me right with God, my consecration. Never! I am put right with God because prior to all, Christ died. When I turn to God and by belief accept what God reveals I can accept, instantly the stupendous Atonement of Jesus Christ rushes me into a right relationship with God; and by the supernatural miracle of God's grace I stand justified, not because I am sorry for my sin, not because I have repented, but because of what Jesus has done. The Spirit of God brings it with a breaking, all-over light, and I know, though I do not know how, that I am saved.

The salvation of God does not stand on human logic, it stands on the sacrificial Death of Jesus. We can be born again because of the Atonement of Our Lord. Sinful men and women can be changed into new creatures, not by their repentance or their belief, but by the marvellous work of God in Christ Jesus which is prior to all experience. The impregnable safety of justification and sanctification is God Himself. We have not to work out these things ourselves; they have been worked out by the Atonement. The supernatural becomes natural by the miracle of God; there is the realization of what Jesus Christ has already done - "It is finished."



 2007/4/16 15:42
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
JaySaved wrote:
God does not have faith for us, but His grace enables us to have faith.


Just as God's grace enables us to breath.

Quote:
sb1175 wrote:
is believing the same as having faith?


Yes

Quote:
sb1175 wrote:
if it is a command, how can a dead heart in trespasses and sin all of a sudden have faith in what God says He is and will do without the reveleation of the Word of God?


[b]2Th 2:10[/b][color=990000] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; [b]because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.[/b][/color]
Can a dead heart love the truth?
Yes, Just as courts of law with dead hearts at the bench seek the truth because they know that it is the concept of reality that the charge can be given.

 2007/4/16 15:46Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
JaySaved wrote:
God does not have faith for us, but His grace enables us to have faith.

logic wrote:
Just as God's grace enables us to breath.



Exactly, we can do nothing apart from the grace of God. We are entirely dependent upon Him.

 2007/4/16 16:31Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Please, keep words in context!

I am sticking with the context. The "his" is what I believe to be what Paul was quoting from, "the just shall live by faith", and I see that "his" to be Jesus Christ. There are other such verses that are quoted that are not in their full context. For example.

The Old Testament says:
Quote:
Psalms 8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.



The New Testament says:
Quote:
Matthew 21:16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?



"Perfected Praise" and "Ordained Strength" seems to be a contradiction. I choose not to believe there is.

Paul said:
Quote:
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

This verse seems to validate this:
Quote:
John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

When Jesus quoted a verse from the Old Testament, where were these people that rebuked Him saying, "Jesus, you got to read that in it's full context". He just quoted one verse, why can't we? The Apostles did. Sheesh :-o

 2007/4/16 17:01









 Re:

how can you love truth and not submit to it? i just don't feel there's any basis for somebody to be able to say i love truth without being able to submit to it.

 2007/4/16 18:57









 Re:

Sb1175, Who are you referring too?

 2007/4/16 19:00
DesiJr
Member



Joined: 2006/1/6
Posts: 113


 Re:

Great response...AMEN

 2007/4/16 21:35Profile





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