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KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Melchizedec is the King of Jerusalem that is above...



This is simply intolerable exegesis. Genesis 14 & Hebrews 7 declares Melchizedek to be the literal king of a literal city named Salem. If such an interpretation is going to be put forward, it is impossible to continue on with a serious discussion.


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Jimmy H

 2007/2/11 17:59Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Melchisedec

Quote:
Brother Mike, am finding it difficult to accept the explanations given with regard to the commentaries...



Hi Chris, am actually inclined to think these explanations are more likely the case. Haven't looked beyond this instance but wonder if there are not more ... sources out there that might address this particular use of language.
Quote:
But it was never said of any of these that they had neither beginning of days nor end of life.



[i]The Greek idiom expressed by "without father," &c., one whose parentage was humble or unknown. "Days" mean his time of discharging his function.[/i]

"Greek idom", maybe KingJimmy can further elucidate this.

Chris, had missed this a couple of replies back;

Quote:
I've read through this thread and I believe, like Rookie and I think Mike, that Melchizedek was not a man that was born, lived and died, or at all any sort of pagan priest or any sort of priest that lived in the surrounding area(at least I think they believe that also). My opinion is that this was a Theophany, in a similar way to Genesis 18:1-2 and Exodus 34:5 for instance.



Actually no. I think that he was a real king\priest and that he received the tithes from Abraham and that he was not a 'pagan' ... (My whole umbrage earlier) and the emphasis was on what seemed to be the great import of why the writer to the Hebrews was even using him as a 'model' if you will in the first place. The emphasis being on the [i]order[/i] as that seems to be his thrust. Think someone here had said that a great deal of these other things are arguments from silence. And I would have to agree.

It certainly doesn't make things easier, the way those words are ... worded. Wonder what a strictly Jewish (Old Testament) take on him might be.


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Mike Balog

 2007/2/11 21:42Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Jeff, you are still trying to put the old Hebrew, that is Law, and all that Israel was, into the New. That is the New Body of
Christ, which is His Church, His Body.

Christ was crucified 2000 years ago, and the way of salvation is changed. Believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and you will be saved. Also all things have become new, that is The Grace of God through the Faith of Christ.

A birthing that old testament believers did not have. "Born again by the Incorruptable Seed", that is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] He might have the preeminence.

You cannot make Melchizedek the old testament incarnate Christ be their salvation as He is ours.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

That is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

You cannot get free from sin by the Law or anything in the old testament. Christ is the only way.

Romans 6:22-23 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This was hid from old testament saints. Abraham could not have Christ born again in Him. Melchizedek could not save or be birthed in you as Jesus Christ is now.

Again, again again and again.
Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

You too Jeff. In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/2/11 21:52Profile









 Re: Mechizedec - who was he?

The following scripture picks up RonB's point, of a king-priest; in this case THE King-Priest.

Zechariah 6:12, 13
12 "Then speak to him, saying,
'Thus says the LORD of hosts, saying:
"Behold, the Man whose name [is] the BRANCH!
From His place He shall branch out,
And He shall build the temple of the LORD;
Yes, He shall build the temple of the LORD.
He shall bear the glory,
And shall sit and rule on His throne;
So [b]He shall be a priest on His throne[/b],
And the counsel of peace shall be between them both." '


Quote:
You cannot make Melchizedek the old testament incarnate Christ be their salvation as He is ours.

Phillip,

There is a difference between acknowledging the meaning of a character in the Old Testament, and adding to that the implication (as you are doing) that therefore those who 'believed' in that character, were born again. Anyway, this discussion has been had elsewhere.

We are all agreed, aren't we, that Christ is the Tree of Life. And

1 Corinthians 10:1
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. [b]For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and [u]that Rock[/u] was Christ[/b].

Earlier in the thread I drew attention to the three men who visited Abraham, and since then I've been wondering if they all spoke exactly the same words at the same time, for in Abraham's accounting, he was being visted by the 'Lord' - 'Jehovah' - singular.

Are we happy enough with a pagan king identifying one 'like the Son of God' in the fiery furnace with Daniel's three friends?


KingJimmy,
Quote:
This is simply intolerable exegesis. Genesis 14 & Hebrews 7 declares Melchizedek to be the literal king of a literal city named Salem.

But there is a whole lot more information in Hebrews, than Genesis. Where did that come from, and, where was Salem?


EDIT: I had intended to include these verses.

Ephesians 2:19 - 22
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner[stone,] in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

Hebrews 11:8 - 11
By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as [in] a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God.

Hebrews 12:22 - 24
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn [who are] registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than [that of] Abel.


All this doesn't make Melchizedec Jesus, but, it does make Melchizedec a type of our Lord, in the same way as many Old Testament characters were; but, I know we don't bring tithes - we bring everything - and we share bread and wine to celebrate the ultimate spiritual victory.

 2007/2/20 15:07
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

During the Feast of Tabernacles Psalms 116 through 119 were read as part of the celebration. Please correct if I am wrong, I am relying on my fading memory.

In Psalm 118 we hear this...

19 Open to me the gates of righteousness;
I will go through them,
And I will praise the LORD.
20 This is the gate of the LORD,
Through which the righteous shall enter.
21 I will praise You,
For You have answered me,
And have become my salvation.
22 The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.

Do you believe that those who worshiped the Lord with these understood salvation that comes with righteousness? Do His words come back void ? Do they have no power?

Does the Word have no power? Is He only the High Priest for the past 2000 years?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/2/21 2:25Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

John 8:12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

Jesus spoke these words during the Feast of Tabernacles to the priest of the Temple. Have you ever looked at chapter 8 and contemplated what the whole lesson was about?

Do you think that the priest recognized the words of Jesus that is found in the OT?

Job 33:30 To bring back his soul from the Pit,
That he may be enlightened with the light of life.

Psa. 27:1 The LORD is my light and my salvation;
Whom shall I fear?
The LORD is the strength of my life;
Of whom shall I be afraid?

Psa. 36:9 For with You is the fountain of life;
In Your light we see light.

Prov. 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp,
And the law a light;
Reproofs of instruction are the way of life,

What did Jesus do in the OT? Was He idyl? Was He waiting for His turn? Was He any greater after He died on the cross for our sins?



In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/2/21 2:34Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

John 7:37-38

"On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, [b]as the Scripture has said,[/b]out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."

Jesus cried out at the height of the Feast of Tabernacles this proclamation.

What Scriptures do you think the priests thought of when Jesus cried out this promise?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/2/25 14:04Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

They had no scriptures on their mind and could not, it was still a mystery yet to be revealed to Paul. All they had on their mind was "crucify Him". What did Nicodemus ask? Why did Christ tell him he must be born again? Nicodemus still did not understand.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/2/25 17:51Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

""All this doesn't make Melchizedek Jesus, but, it does make Melchizedek a type of our Lord, in the same way as many Old Testament characters were; but, I know we don't bring tithes - we bring everything - and we share bread and wine to celebrate the ultimate spiritual victory.""

I agree whole heartily or they could have been born again by Melchizedek. The only born again are through the incarnate and risen Lord Jesus Christ.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/2/25 18:09Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:


Quote:
They had no scriptures on their mind and could not, it was still a mystery yet to be revealed to Paul.



I disagree, for Scripture says...that Jesus said...

John 7:38

"He who believes in Me, [b]as the Scripture has said,[/b] out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."

Now if Jesus said it and the Holy Spirit caused John to write it then it must be so.

Here is an example found in the OT...

Jeremiah 2:13

"For My people have committed two evils; they have forsaken Me, [b]the fountain of living waters,[/b]and hewn themselves cisterns--broken cisterns that can hold no water."

Who is the fountain of living water that was forsaken during Jeremiah's time?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/2/25 22:12Profile





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