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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Melchizedek - who was he?

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KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

He is a king-priest... the sort of priest that Melchizedek illustrates.



Indeed Ron. Hebrews 7 is simply try to show precedence in regard to Christ's ministry, and how the seemingly unreconcilable notion of a king-priest is possible.


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Jimmy H

 2007/2/10 8:03Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

So the Levitical priests worshiped God by offering a tithe...is this then consistent with what I said when Abraham worshipped Melchizedec by offering his tithe to him?



This is not consistent. Abraham presenting his tithe to Melchizedek correlates to somebody else in Israel bringing their tithe to one of the Levites. When one brought their tithe to a priest, it did not constitute the worship of the priest but the worship of God. Thus, when Abraham brought the tithe to Melchizedek, it constituted the worship of God, not Melchizedek.

How in the world you see Abraham bringing Melchizedek his tithe as worshiping Melchizedek as God is beyond me. It seems more like you WANT Melchizedek to be a pre-incarnate version of Christ. But this is not what Genesis 14, Psalm 110, or Hebrews 7 teaches. It is a popular teaching. But it is not based on Scripture.


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Jimmy H

 2007/2/10 8:11Profile
KingJimmy
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Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

In Daniel 3, we see Nebuchadnezzar calling God by the same title that Melchizedek used, and blessing Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. This, at the point in Nebuchadnezzar’s life when he was forcing people to worship an image of himself. A pagan priest-king blessing godly people.



Indeed, this would be a possible Scriptural argument for showing Melchizedek was possibly a pagan. However, it could also be argued that this was just another generic way of talking about God. As you are probably aware, the most common name used for God in the Old Testament is "El." This is also the same name that pagans used for their idols. But we would not argue that Abraham or the rest worshiped a pagan idol.

Quote:

If Melchizedek was a pagan, then we have a pagan and Jesus in the same order of priests. Problems!



Indeed :)

Quote:

So, we are forced to conclude that the order is symbolic, not literal.



No, we are not forced to conclude that the order is a symbolic one. Melchizedek was literally a priest and a king. And Christ is also literally, a priest and a king. If Melchizedek was not literally a priest, then neither is Christ. If he were not literally a king, then neither is Christ. The Scriptures mean what they say when Christ is a priest of the order of Melchizedek. And this order, contrary to the Levitical priesthood, did not require one to be a certain pedigree to enter into. Rather, one was a priest according to this order simply because God declared one so.

Quote:

He’s like Nebuchadnezzar, pagan priest king over Babylon.



The Scriptures never see Nebuchadnezzar as being a priest.


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Jimmy H

 2007/2/10 8:25Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Jim wrote:

Quote:
How in the world you see Abraham bringing Melchizedek his tithe as worshiping Melchizedek as God is beyond me. It seems more like you WANT Melchizedek to be a pre-incarnate version of Christ.



Scripture states that the sons of Levi paid tithes through Abraham to Melchizedec.

Hebrews 7:
7 Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives."

In this Scripture where is he who receives them and is he still alive?

Now we must not forget that this section of Scripture is teaching about Melchizedec.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/2/10 10:08Profile
rookie
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Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Ron wrote:

Quote:
His high-priesthood is Melchizedekian



Whose high-priesthood is Melchizedekian?

If you believe that it is Christ then it must be concluded then that Christ's priesthood was first exemplified by another that preceded Him...

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/2/10 10:12Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
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 Re: an opinon

Good morning all.

I've read through this thread and I believe, like Rookie and I think Mike, that Melchizedek was not a man that was born, lived and died, or at all any sort of pagan priest or any sort of priest that lived in the surrounding area(at least I think they believe that also). My opinion is that this was a Theophany, in a similar way to Genesis 18:1-2 and Exodus 34:5 for instance.


In verse 3 of Hebrews 7, the author goes well beyond suggesting that there is no record for the genealogy of Melchizedek. He goes so far beyond it as to say of this [b]man[/b], that he had



[i][b] neither beginning of days[/b][/i]


[i][b]nor end of life[/b][/i]


There was a mystery here in the Old Testament which I believe the author of Hebrews is now unfolding by the Holy Spirit according to Christ's words:


[b][color=660033]Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.[/color][/b]


I see this here as the graciousness of the Holy Spirit illuminating an obscure event in the history of redemption by giving to us knowledge which was not before revealed.

Are there not so many who come and go, that flash upon the pages of sacred history without any record of their descent? And yet of which of them was it ever said

they had...


[i][b] neither beginning of days[/b][/i]


[i][b]nor end of life[/b][/i]


I know not any.

That the [i]scribe[/i] here also unfolds for us that this Melchizedek is also called


[i][b] King of righteousness[/b][/i]

and...

[i][b] King of peace[/b][/i]

speaks also to me of his being other than a natural man. Of Whom could it be said

"He is King of Righteousness and King of Peace"?

Where do these meet?


[i]Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.[/i]

Is this not the name of the Lord which He declared unto Moses saying

"The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty..."

That He is forgiving speaks of His mercy.

That He will by no means clear the guilty speaks of His truth.

And yet are not these two met in the Lord Jesus, wherefore it is written of Him

[i]...and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.[/i]


How then can this Melchizedek have such a name, except he was in some fashion the presence of Him to Whom it belongs?



Peace be with you all in Christ.


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/2/10 10:15Profile
rookie
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Jesus Christ was ordain to become incarnate before the foundation of the world, that was at His birth by His mother Mary and His Father God.



Quote:
You cannot make Melchizedek the Incarnate Christ.



I believe that Scripture teaches that Melchizedec was the pre-incarnate Christ.

Quote:
Then there would be no need for His Birth, to become a perfect human being and perfect Very God. The difference in old testament salvation is God by His mercy and by their faith God saved them and will make that manifest in the Millennium by the Christ that was promised them.



It seems as though you argue against the doctrine of the Trinity. Scripture states that the OT saints were saved by grace...

Romans 11:5-6

"Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work."

Through whom does all grace flow from?

Quote:
We have salvation through faith, that is through the faith of a different acknowledgement of The Will of God that we should believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and we will be saved through the Faith of this Person, Jesus Christ, not by our faith in keeping the Law of God.



The law given on Mount Sinai condemns. No one but Christ kept the law. What other law was in place that enabled the OT saints to overcome this condmenation?

Psalm 119:1-3

"Blessed are the undefiled in the way. Who walk in the law of the Lord! Blessed are those who keep His testimonies, who seek Him with the whole heart! They also do no iniquity; they walk in His ways."

What law is at work in these brethren?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/2/10 10:28Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Chris quoted:

Quote:
Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.



The words of mere men fail compared to the power that exists in Scripture alone.

You have blessed me with this Scripture, I see a greater depth then before...

God Bless
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/2/10 10:34Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Hebrews 7:
7 Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives."

In this Scripture where is he who receives them and is he still alive?



Good question. The reason Hebrews says that "of whom it is witnessed that he lives" is because Melchizedek is presented in Scripture of as being nothing other than alive. To the author of Hebrews, what is not said about Melchizedek is just as important as what is said about him. He makes "an argument from silence." For he believes that God only gave us enough information about Melchizedek so as to give us a type of what Christ was to be in His priesthood. And since the Scriptures never mention anything of the death of Melchizedek, Hebrews 7 argues that the type that Melchizedek serves as points us to a priest that would arise according to his pattern. Since Melchizedek is always presented as being alive, then this serves as a type that the the other priest that should arise according to his order should be one that actually always lives. And this is what Christ does.

And remember, it is off this argument of silence that Hebrews 7 shows that the priesthood of Melchizedek was not one according to pedigree, as was the case with the Levites. For nothing is mentioned in Genesis 14 of Melchizedek's genealogy. Rather, one who serves as a priest in this order doesn't do so because of pedigree, but simply because God declares one such a priest. And since Christ, whose genealogy we have recorded in Matthew and Luke, isn't of Levite stock, but instead, from the tribe of Judah, this doesn't disqualify Him from being a priest.

Once again, we are not to confuse Christ as being Melchizedek. For he is not called Melchizedek, but rather, "another" priest that has arisen according to the same order. If Christ was indeed Melchizedek, then Christ could not be "another" priest. *edit* And since Christ is "another" priest according to this order, we know therefore that there have been at least two priests of this order.


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Jimmy H

 2007/2/10 10:46Profile
KingJimmy
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Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

If Melchizedek was really Christ pre-incarnate, then what one is essentially saying is that Jesus Christ also lived on this earth as a literal king of an actual city, prior to His incarnation.


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Jimmy H

 2007/2/10 11:30Profile





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