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Discussion Forum : General Topics : You Know You're Visiting a Bad Church If...

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murdog
Member



Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario

 Re:

Ian,

We are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols.

"As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality." Acts 21:25

"Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols." Revelation 2:20

Is Mars Hill, the same organization that did the "Bullhorn Guy Video"?

I personally think that becoming like the world, to win the world is a bad strategy.

Murray


_________________
Murray Beninger

 2007/2/6 17:22Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re: Tangent!

The teaching of Paul concerning food sacrificed to Idols.

1 Corinthians 8:4-9 NASB

Quote:
4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.

5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,

6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

8 [b]But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat[/b].

9But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.



Since God is God and idols are just hunks of wood and stone, we know that meat sacrificed to idols is in fact meat that has been sacrificed to wood and stone -there's nothing wrong with that BBQ!~

Now the problem is, that there is so much freedom we're given under grace that can be misunderstood for sin. But there's also so much religiosity that can be misunderstood for piousness and holiness that is wickedness according to Jesus.

That is why we are called to the narrow road. We are on a path that is bordered on one side by wonton abuse of grace, and on the other side by dead legalism. We have to be careful how we tread this way.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/2/6 17:41Profile
murdog
Member



Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario

 Re:

Ian,

I knew you were going to use those scriptures. I almost included them in my previous post. I don't think Paul is telling us to heap on the food sacrificed to idols. He knows idols are nothing, but most people don't. Therefore their concsciences are made guilty if they partake.

Murray

Sorry for hijacking the thread!


_________________
Murray Beninger

 2007/2/6 18:57Profile









 Re:

Krispy,

Maybe I am not sure of my point exactly, but...



hmmhmm and HopeinChrist both said:

You know you've visited a bad church if...1909 views

What True Prayer is... 63 views

Mercy and Truth... 30 views

I do not know their intent, but it could have meant that we are spending too much time on this topic, however, if you took a broader picture of sermonindex, you could see it differently. So, those quotes mixed with the way this thread took a nose-dive, I wanted to point out that with all the 'seriousness' on sermonindex (rightfully so), that one thread, with humor, out of all the posts and topics would be a blessing. And that numbers can work in someones favor or not, just like false teachers with scripture.

Total Topics...14282(but now there is more)

Total Posts...112566(but now there is more)

Total Humorous...1 (You know you've visited a bad church if...)(this topic remains, which is good)

Sorry, Krispy, there was a point, hopefully I made it more clear. You are not thick, I am thin. I just wanted to state that a thread like this is good to have amongst everything else.

With all the 'debates' and people trying to get the last word. I truly believe that this thread has made a great point.

The other day, I walked into my door frame, because my door was not fully open and I tried to hurry through and squeeze by. At the time it was not too funny and I did not understand why it happened. Now I can laugh about it because I know I was in error, not the door frame.

We can have a laugh or crack a smile over many things. Remember, God gave us the ability. If we cannot laugh at ourselves (Christians), who or what can we laugh at or with?
;-) :-(

The truth does hurt sometimes, but it also can be funny. I do not recall one single person saying that our churches were 'sinning', rather they are 'saddening'.

You know you've visited a bad church if...
everyone agrees!!!

Therefore, we have a wonderful 'church' here in sermonindex...Keep the fires alive, they prepare us as soldiers for the real enemy of the world; satan.

God Bless those that agree to disagree,
Brian

P.S. Please do not try and make the point that a little poop in my brownie or bad language in a movie is the same as here. It is not.

 2007/2/6 19:04
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Dear Ian,

Yes, brother, I am [i]very[/i] married. I totally understand your point, I know how you feel. Right after I posted, I got a check in my spirit that I shouldn't have contributed here. The whole tone just seemed too jocular and irreverent.

Quote:
Zac Poonen's answer to that man was to go and buy a TV.



Ah, but this is not the same. I'm not sure Poonen would throw a wine and champagne and dancing party in his church. This is different than "condemning" someone for watching TV. I would never "condemn" a person for watching TV, just like I wouldn't "condemn" a man for getting a tattoo or earring who professes to be a Christian. But it would certainly be an indication of weakness and immaturity. Brothers and sisters are at different levels in the school of God. And conversely, a brother who is clean cut and pure-looking on the outside could be filled with a plethora of germs and bacterial sin on the inside. Only God knows our hearts, and how far we've advanced in his invisible school.

Quote:
Yes they served wine and champaign in the church.



Why? Why would a church serve wine and champagne? Why the surging music and dancing? Is this walking in the Holy Spirit and making no provision for the flesh? Ian, where do we draw the line? O, that we could just get a single [i]glimpse[/i] into the face of Jesus Christ with all his blazing holiness and glory - brother, I assure you we would never pick up a glass of champagne or turn on the filthy idiot box again.

We would be changed. And go on and on from glory to glory into progressive perfection and holiness. We would begin to love the things God loves and hate the things God hates. We would become zealous for his righteousness and purity and humilty and truth to shine like a sun through us. We would be totally crushed and self-deprecated to the level of a worm in a dunghill (dancing, gyrating, champagne drinking worms?) and there be exhalted in knowledge and wisdom through godly affliction and suffering. Our only desire, our sole insatiable thirst would be to to gain a more perfect revelation of Christ's holiness and conformity to Him in the inner man.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/2/6 20:17Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Quote:

murdog wrote:
Ian,

I knew you were going to use those scriptures. I almost included them in my previous post. I don't think Paul is telling us to heap on the food sacrificed to idols. He knows idols are nothing, but most people don't. Therefore their concsciences are made guilty if they partake.

Murray

Sorry for hijacking the thread!



Murray,

Maybe I have a particular affinity towards Paul's words as a self confessed carnivor! God made it good, so let's enjoy it! Pass the BBQ! (I hope you realize I'm attempting humor).

And on the 8th day man ate steak and it was very very very good!


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/2/6 22:49Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Brother Paul,

I wanted to input that I am not a member of Mars Hill and don't know their thinking behind their New Years party.

I do know some Mars Hill members and might be able to argue along their line of reasoning.

Mars Hill is very much about being a church to underdog, the prostitutes, the poor, the down trodden in the same way that the salvation army in the 1800's and preachers like Charles Spurgeon were.

In fact there rational for allowing drinking goes much along the lines that 'Jesus wasn't against having a glass of wine, even with sinners and prostitutes.'

They take this farther to say that even Charles Spurgeon could drink with the best Sailors. However they do draw a strong line against drunkeness.

The point of me mentioning this event was to show that if taken out of context it could be easily misunderstood. Mars Hill is a very biblically grounded church. I encourage you to look up Mark Driscoll on youtube and listen to some of the short snipets about a 'missional church.' He talks about an open hand and a closed hand theology -something which I think is biblical.

So yeah, Mars Hill = Great Jesus Centered Church. I'm not a member, but I've seen their fruit. If I had just mentioned the new years eve party you'd probably think they were the worst church in the world. The thing is, their party was more about the irony of the fact that they were partying than just mindless fun.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/2/6 23:17Profile









 Re:

Ian said:

Quote:
I hope you realize I'm attempting humor



Imagine... thats what I was doing when I started this thread. Huh.

Krispy

 2007/2/7 8:16









 Re:

Quote:
I do not know their intent, but it could have meant that we are spending too much time on this topic, however, if you took a broader picture of sermonindex, you could see it differently. So, those quotes mixed with the way this thread took a nose-dive, I wanted to point out that with all the 'seriousness' on sermonindex (rightfully so), that one thread, with humor, out of all the posts and topics would be a blessing. And that numbers can work in someones favor or not, just like false teachers with scripture.



I think the numbers show something as well. #1 People here like to laugh a little now and then... and #2 we can all relate to a topic like this.

There have actually been several humorous threads on this site from time to time, but unfortunately they usually end up in a long drawn out debate about something... I'm not sure why that is. I'm not sure why everything has to become a theological debating campaign.

I could post something like "The color orange is a very bright color!" ... and a debate about creation will break out, and someone will claim that orange is not just a color but a spiritual metaphor for salvation... then someone will point out that where the KJV says "orange" the NIV says "tangerine"... and someone else will argue that orange is not as intelligent a color as I am making it out to be (after all... I said orange was a very "bright" color)... etc etc.

I'm all for discussing the Bible in a manner that people learn and are encouraged and grow in the Lord... but I am convinced there are a lot of people here only because they looooove to argue. Please notice the Spurgeon quote below my name.

Krispy

 2007/2/7 8:23
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
I could post something like..."The color orange is a very bright color!"...and someone will claim that orange is not just a color but a spiritual metaphor for salvation



:-P

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/2/7 8:37Profile





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