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crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Questioning

Quite a bit to respond to, for the time being just a couple of things;

[i]Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said,[b]Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye [u]root up also[/u] the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest[/b]: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.[/i] Mat 13:24-30

My understanding is that to be honest we are often doing a lot of things that we ought not to be doing. Making preemptive decisions, "whose 'in' and whose 'out'". There is a very good reason for this warning, the most obvious being that we do not know and will not know, we are left with speculation at best, damage at worse. How many other things similarly are we guilty of? Do we know the return path of the backslider? The first steps of the contemplating atheist or agnostic? Can the 'apostate' be, challenged? "Pricked in the heart"? Even the 'system' that most of us deride and are broken over ... Past redemption? Alteration, reformation? I am sorry but what tends to get overlooked here is how much these fallible minds actually are trumping God's ability to do as He well sees fit to do, in His own way and timing, surely this has not completely escaped us?

To hear blanket statements of "cannot", "will not" is to play God Himself and indeed that, I find at once outlandish and fearful for the speaker as well as the hearers. This is the sort of 'thinking through' I meant, my opinion on the matter the last consideration. I could but reinforce something here adamantly; Whatever anyone does here, please look past me, over me, beyond and under and [i]through[/i]. Hold me accountable as you are also doing here, I desire it more than you can know. Look to the Lord, to His word, what did He say? Saints, I never leave here without the same sense of trepidation; "Oh Lord, I pray I have spoken ...[i]rightly[/i]". In other words, [i]well[/i] of the Lord. Hard for me to express this correctly... Honesty is just bearing down to the marrow of being and with that brings a lot of self suspicion and questioning. This is not a 'faith' or doubting matter, but the whole of 'perhaps', held in abeyance ... The [i]whole[/i] of scripture, "every Word that proceedth" keeps coming in at different angles and perspectives .... The great line somewhat taken out of context is in the Lord speaking to Satan regarding Job;

[i]Have you considered .... (My servant ...)?[/i]

There is much to be considered.

Quote:
God is not willing that folk perish and has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Read Psalm 106 and see the heart of God. When the people cried out He heard their cry- even when they deserve judgment.



This is the "out" I was speaking of, there is always an out, always a way back. Surely it will not always be so ...

[i]For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.[/i]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/1/22 10:19Profile









 Re:

Quote:
My understanding is that to be honest we are often doing a lot of things that we ought not to be doing. Making preemptive decisions, "whose 'in' and whose 'out'".



Exactly!

There will come a day when God WILL judge the living and the dead, but it is not this day. We live in the age of mercy folks!

To be completely honest, I am not impressed with anyone who can point out the "problems" within the church. Anyone can see the problems if the look long enough. The problems in the "church" are the same problems outside of the "church"; the rebellious hearts of men. That includes me and that includes you!

And all you have to do is study a little church history to see that every generation has had individuals who have decried the so called “institutional church” How do we think Pentecostalism got started? Have you ever heard of the Amish?

Folks, let’s stop trying to find heaven on Earth. Though I do agree we should avoid false brethren and false teachings, I do not see the profitability in condemning the entire “church”. Again, anyone can point out the problems!

I am impressed with those who can present the solution.

Those who can so easily point out the problems, can you also lead people to the solutions?

What will you do with a repentant individual? Will you give them a list of do’s and don’ts?

Are you able to lead them to Christ and not to the law?

Those of you who cry “Harden not your hearts!” Are you walking in the rest of God? Have you ceased from your own works?

Do you trust in your prayer life?
Do you trust in your bible reading time?
Do you trust in your passion for souls?
Do you trust in your zeal for God?
Do you trust in your own holiness?
Do you trust in your surrendered life?

 2007/1/22 11:08
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
crsschk's: But he said,Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. [u]Let both grow together until the harvest:[/u] and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Mat 13:24-30



This is a very sobering reminder. Thanks for sharing this passage Mike!





_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/1/22 11:14Profile
RandyWatchin
Member



Joined: 2007/1/17
Posts: 4


 Re: Dream of Apostasy - Prophetic Warning - Judgment is HERE!

May NONE of you rebuke this Brother.... His Heart is True and His love of you who are lost in "church Insanity" is apparent so don"t Tell him he is Not! His Heart is Filled w/The love of God for a Dead "church" that is setting itself up to be deceived even further than it already is!
Come out of HER my People before its too Late!
She is a Daughter of The Mother of Harlots and calls herself "church" and there is no Truth in Her! She eats The Sheep and they love to have it so as they are bleed both financially and Spiritually all the day long! You may Ignore this Brothers Warnings and you may Ignore The Word of God but you will NOT Ignore the King of Kings in short time from NOW!
Repent you Stiff Necked and uncircumcised in Heart ... You do AlWays resist the Holy Ghost as your fathers before you ! As they murdered the prophets so do you this Brother who brings you TRUTH without compromise. You who have come to LOVE your Way more than Truth with your "Criticism"! God Sees our Hearts and Sees through what we say we "believe"/lip service" to our Hearts and JUDGES the Thoughts and INTENTS thereof. Be careful whom you rebuke lest ye be found to Fight against The Holy Ghost!

randy-watching

 2007/1/22 11:18Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Hold your peace

Quote:
May NONE of you rebuke this Brother.... His Heart is True and His love of you who are lost in "church Insanity" is apparent so don"t Tell him he is Not! His Heart is Filled w/The love of God for a Dead "church" that is setting itself up to be deceived even further than it already is!



Randy, you have been here a total of 5 days now. There is absolutely no way you could possibly have begun to mine the resources nor begin to know the hearts of those that fellowship here. Before you start 'rebuking' here it would be wise to hold your peace, get familar with your surroundings if wish to contribute. Please read up a bit on the site;

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14144&forum=13&0]MUST READ: SermonIndex Forum Disclaimer / Community Rules[/url]



_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/1/22 15:45Profile
c52
Member



Joined: 2006/12/31
Posts: 44
Loveland, Co. USA

 Re:

Mike Balog spoke of the "apparent mis-fortune in God, to have a prophectic ministry." I don't understand this reasoning, can it be made more clear? Can anyone find instances in the lives of the prophets (in scripture) where the prophet was joyful, thankful, and willing to submit totally to the will of God without intervention from God moving on the personality of the prophet? Why would these men and women in scripture not choose (if they had a choice) this work whereas so-called prophets in our day can not wait to place the mantle upon themselves?


_________________
Charles H Holston

 2007/1/22 16:03Profile









 Re: Dream of Apostasy - Prophetic Warning - Judgment is HERE!

Hi Mike

Quote:
So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

I agree that it is commonly held today in the churches, that we cannot know who knows the Lord and who does not.

On SI, this may be because we don't hear each other's voices, although my experience of writing under the influence of the Spirit to some people, is that the Lord had no difficulty in communicating with them through the written word, as indeed has happened this weekend on SI, through Neil's post in Carnal Christians (which is yet to be told in full).

However, in the parable, in keeping with Jesus' statement that we would know His own by their fruit, the servants could tell which were the wheat and which were the tares.

Are we, perhaps, labouring under a false premise, that it is impossible to discern the Lord's Body?

The answer to this question (which from me, is rhetorical, although of course a deceiver sets out to be deceived, and I've been deceived in the past), surely is in scripture. Fruit is not just souls saved, it is the fruit of the Spirit, the love, joy, peace, longsuffering, goodness, gentleness, faith, meekness, and temperance, against which is no law.


You know, I've been thinking about the mocking laughter which Josef described in his dream. It reminds me of the mockery which came from the leader of the church to which I refer as a cult, whose leader came from a witchcraft family. This has led me to remember Samuel's statement in 1 Sam 15:23, that 'rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft', and I've been meditating on what might be the connection with this and the sin of the flesh listed by Paul in Galatians 5 as 'sorcery'.

This all fits into the Carnal Christians thread, too, but it is yet another example of the Holy Spirit pointing up something God wants us to grasp, if we ourselves are not to be castaway - as Paul so wisely admonished himself, for our edification.

 2007/1/22 16:04
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Be careful whom you rebuke lest ye be found to Fight against The Holy Ghost!



Yes and it is best to examine our ownselves before we assume someone else has miss-stepped. We can't all just drop our discernment for fear of fighting against God. He has called us to discern and be good Bereans. That is where the Nobility exists- not in allowing things to come in uncontested and undiscerned.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/1/22 16:22Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
There is also the matter of the witness of the Holy Spirit. Josef is far from the first to come to SI to post having had a deeply disturbing dream [b]in which he KNOWS[/b] it was God speaking to him. Don't you think that EVERYone (that is, every true believer, who really DOES know the Lord), who has this sort of dream or vision goes through just a tiny bit of bringing it to the Lord and settling their own heart and mind before they launch it out on to the world stage? Don't you think they are concerned for the credibility of God Himself, and their own eternity, should they be misleading THE CHURCH?



Hi Linn,

But how do [i]you[/i] know this? Is this not presumption? What is our measure for testing? Have been giving this even more thought ... I too have had powerful dreams before, one that shook me to my very core before I even came into the Light. It is as vivid as if it was yesterday and probably has been some 15 years now. Daylight to midnight in less than a minute, like watching one of those speed-ed up weather reels ... It was the end of the world ... I was on me knees without a thought. A lot of detail missing but it stayed with me for a very, very long time, the first shaking's of the somewhat dormant and deceived conscience in it's rebellious state at the time.

But was it a particular prophecy? If it had happened last week would I (should I?) then turn it back out to all of us here and say ... This is it, it's all over ... ? A pretty extreme example...

We are going to end up falling right back on to the same thing that we have yet to get defined (though I think Ron (Philologos) has brought to our understanding the nature of prophetic things in this day we live in ... Maybe it is just whether we accept that or not.

We know the scriptures that can be used here about the outpouring of the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit and all else that is to be spoken about this, a great deal and that is not in dispute. Have to pause this thought for a moment...

Quote:
This is not to say that all your challenges here on SI are wasted, or should not be made, but, we, here, [b]need to have confidence in what God is saying to us[/b], and to grow in trust of each other in God, and in the unity of the Spirit.



Indeed! We can certainly agree here. Confidence! Yes, you see that is the issue but what concerns me is the tendency to be democratic rather than scriptural. I do not believe we are under a mandate of [i]innocent until proven guilty[/i] and that seems to be the way these things are too often treated. The flip-side being "guilty" by association or suspicion. Suspicion yes, in this day ...? How many are they? The prophetic utterances? Thousands? Millions? Any one and everyone that Names the Name is ... Trustworthy? Authentic? Accepted as what he or she says just because it [i]sounds[/i] correct or similar? This is a terrible way of using even a natural discernment, to capitulate to the spiritual ... It is just that it is often unchecked against the only [i][b]true[/b][/i] thing we have, God's Word. Isn't this how we will ultimately build our confidence, [i]proving all things[/i]?

Not necessarily 'guilty', no, no, that is not the motivation. Purity? Isn't this the results of testing? We are not talking anything about sincerity or possibilities nor accusations, nor even the witness of the Spirit, just the first instances of where we should be taking everything.

This is unfortunately just a quick perusing here, hardly touching the surface of it all nor is it all something dismissive. [i]Prayer[/i] ... our brother is certainly correct about this.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/1/22 16:24Profile









 Re:

All of you are straining at knats and swallowing camels...

 2007/1/22 19:51





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